|
gb3985
Aug 8, 2006, 9:23 PM
Post #26 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2006
Posts: 47
|
Heres my $.02........
A bail beiner is just that.A beiner that someone left.I personaly take them.As other people take mine if I leave one.Ones that I pick up get used for bail beiners.I don't really believe in the old "microfracture"tale however,are you going to leave a new piece of gear or a piece of shit that you don't trust/care about?
|
|
|
|
|
davidji
Aug 8, 2006, 10:45 PM
Post #27 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1776
|
It's usually wrong to pull biners off rap slings if you leave the sling.
Maybe the sling was good and had only been rapped using the biners (instead of rope directly through the sling). If you remove the biner, the sling becomes trash. As far as any future party knows a sling with no biners or rap rings has had a rope pulled through it and it may by unsafe to reuse. So if you take the biner, take the sling too.
|
|
|
|
|
mp31bravo
Aug 8, 2006, 11:14 PM
Post #28 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2005
Posts: 1
|
Bail biners should be claimed as discarded gear. I think everyone who has left a biner wrote it off anyway. Plus, I would rather have my gear used by a fellow climber than to be left on the rock. Now, here in Korea, every now and then I find rigid cams left at key locations on some routes. The Koreans leave them there to use again and again. Now, that's a crazy thing to do in my book, as they seem to be old and rusting. Scary!
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Aug 9, 2006, 12:02 AM
Post #29 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: It seems to me that a everybody on RC.com is an expert on climbing ethics, which is great for me because I have always struggled over what to do if I came across a dead climber! Not injured, or mostly dead, I am talking a stone cold stiff. It seams to me that his/her rack would then be booty! Am I right? Seriously, if a dude just bought the farm so what use will he have for all the gear he left behind? Now then, I want everybody to know, if you ever come across me dead go ahead and claim my shwag! I will have no use for it. Well bobs your uncle, and No I DO NOT NEED A BELAY!!! :P :P :P
What?
|
|
|
|
|
patmay81
Aug 9, 2006, 7:40 PM
Post #30 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081
|
i couldn't agree more with gerrybo. booty is just that, booty... take it as you find it. well, maybe not slings, but definitely any lockers or stoppers. especially on a ??5.1??. boy that is a hike.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Aug 9, 2006, 10:49 PM
Post #31 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
^^^there's some funny shit in there!^^^
ANY gear left on a route is booty for the taking (IMO). If there's a walk-off to the route one might reasonably be expected to clean all tat/gear left behind by a bailing party, provided the trash is disposed of in a reasonable manner and not just left at the base ie: slings carried out and hardware re-used where appropriate. Of course it's up to the booty-monster to determine for themselves what is safe to re-use and what is not.
one exception to this would be draws left on a sport route, which are sacrosanct
|
|
|
|
|
the_iceman
Aug 12, 2006, 7:28 AM
Post #32 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 347
|
Why not take the chains and bolts off rap stations while you're at it?
|
|
|
|
|
alexmac
Aug 12, 2006, 10:15 PM
Post #34 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 550
|
Well, I hope when your climbing and you expect a rap station that you also bring gear to set and build a rap station you don't mind leaving behind.
Most of those are left there for a reason, never mind booty is a risk to your life.
booty is for the wall not for the rack.
Rap stations, if you take it down or steal from it, then may Karma help you when you most need a rap station and its not there.
|
|
|
|
|
the_iceman
Aug 13, 2006, 10:35 AM
Post #35 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 347
|
Yeah, climbing on stolen gear is bad karma. That's why I highly recommend that theifs climb on their stolen gear.
|
|
|
|
|
mowz
Aug 13, 2006, 3:21 PM
Post #36 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 1495
|
In reply to: ^^^there's some funny s--- in there!^^^ ANY gear left on a route is booty for the taking (IMO). If there's a walk-off to the route one might reasonably be expected to clean all tat/gear left behind by a bailing party, provided the trash is disposed of in a reasonable manner and not just left at the base ie: slings carried out and hardware re-used where appropriate. Of course it's up to the booty-monster to determine for themselves what is safe to re-use and what is not. one exception to this would be draws left on a sport route, which are sacrosanct
But what if there are draws hanging from a 5.12c sport route and I can climb 5.13b? Because I would be strong enough to hang my own draws and such, does that mean I can take the draws that were left?
|
|
|
|
|
the_iceman
Aug 14, 2006, 5:16 AM
Post #37 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 347
|
In reply to: In reply to: But what if there are draws hanging from a 5.12c sport route and I can climb 5.13b? Because I would be strong enough to hang my own draws and such, does that mean I can take the draws that were left? If they left it there, then it is free for the taking in my book. I'm sorry, but if someone cannot make it up a route without pre-placing gear, or if they just leave it behind because they want to "work" on it, then they have just bought me some shiny new gear... Bail biners... I take the unnecessary ones. I replace anchors and what not with new gear if it needs it... But random booty is booty, none the less... You're the f---ing retard for leaving your s--- behind...
That's becuase you're nothing more than a common theif.
|
|
|
|
|
alexmac
Aug 14, 2006, 1:35 PM
Post #38 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 550
|
I am not sure that taking apart a belay station for stuff is so good an idea; if you are doing this to save money you should take up hockey or baseball where the gear costs less.
Its a good idea to make mental note of those who will do such acts and just not climb with them at all.
Under this faulty logic it would be okay to take the bolts out of bolted routes cause it is random free booty; sadly if someone needs to save money that badly they need to get a out of McDonald's, stop smoking parsley laced with angel dust and get a real life .
|
|
|
|
|
tripperjm
Aug 14, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #39 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2002
Posts: 10650
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: But what if there are draws hanging from a 5.12c sport route and I can climb 5.13b? Because I would be strong enough to hang my own draws and such, does that mean I can take the draws that were left? If they left it there, then it is free for the taking in my book. I'm sorry, but if someone cannot make it up a route without pre-placing gear, or if they just leave it behind because they want to "work" on it, then they have just bought me some shiny new gear... Bail biners... I take the unnecessary ones. I replace anchors and what not with new gear if it needs it... But random booty is booty, none the less... You're the f---ing retard for leaving your s--- behind... That's becuase you're nothing more than a common theif.
I'm going to have to agree with the_iceman on this one. If you take somebodies project draws, you are nothing more than a "common thief"!
|
|
|
|
|
havard
Aug 15, 2006, 9:24 AM
Post #40 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 49
|
You are all welcome to take my bail gear. If I'm in over my head, and need to bail - that's my bad. If I had to bail due to bad weather - I should have listened more carefully to weather reports. I agree on the rap routes, tho. They should be left alone. But an obvious bail station in the middle of p2.. If I left it, and later sees it on someone elses harness, I won't feel bad. I left it there to save my neck during a bail, and it did it's job. Leaving gear behind, and collecting bail gear is just a small part of the game IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
c4c
Aug 15, 2006, 1:18 PM
Post #41 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 18, 2006
Posts: 1279
|
If I find it I take it. If I come across a post where someone says "I lost/left it", then I give it back. If it is good stuff ie. a good cam I attempt to find the owner to give it back.
I treat people like I would like to be treated.
As far as using booty gear... if someone was willing to rap off of a single biner I hope that it isn't just a dog leash biner. But If you feel that way then send them my way, I have a bunch of dogs!!!
|
|
|
|
|
seanhabgood
Aug 15, 2006, 3:32 PM
Post #42 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2006
Posts: 82
|
Hey gear left behind should be removed it is trash. If you can't set your own bail rap you don't belong there. Stick to top ropeing. If you clean up you mite save some dumb ass from using unsafe gear and landing on his head. There are a large number of rap deaths and injuries. I have seen dumb asses who came close to wining the darwin award, but with dumb luck only had a hard bounce on there face. Sean
|
|
|
|
|
alexmac
Aug 15, 2006, 4:20 PM
Post #43 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 23, 2005
Posts: 550
|
I have no issue with cleaning up bail points or finding someones nut - tricam - cam etc in the wall and getting it. Just some persons wish to also remove rap stations and frankly a little worried about if they are able to tell the difference between a bail and a rap station.
I do like the look for postings or friends who left gear behind its a good thing.
|
|
|
|
|
catbird_seat
Aug 15, 2006, 5:27 PM
Post #44 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 7, 2004
Posts: 425
|
It seems that many can't differentiate between established rappel stations and poot slings/ biners. It's usually pretty obvious which is which. Well this IS the beginners forum. Perhaps they haven't gotten out of the gym yet.
|
|
|
|
|
trevzilla
Aug 23, 2006, 11:11 PM
Post #45 of 45
(8958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Posts: 164
|
I would just like to reiterate that the biners were more or less "Dog Leash Biners." Good enough to rappel from, but I wouldn't want one catching a fall by any means. Point being, considering Granite Peak is more of a hike than a climb, and they definately weren't sport draws, and I found a perfectly decent descent, I figure these biners were perfectly good to take. We didn't rapel directly from any slings. All the rappel stations we used had rings. And we left the rings.
So in summary, after reading all your posts, I definately believe I was O.K. to take these. Just doing my part to "Leave no trace!" Cleaning up the mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
