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mattm
Aug 11, 2006, 7:12 PM
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This is a topic that gets talked about all the time but it needs to be revisited ONCE AGAIN...
[start]
Mags - for the love of god start doing articles about NORMAL climbing and climbing areas! Who cares if you repeat an area you covered 10 years ago? That's what people like to read about. Yes, the latest 14d or 15 send is news. Leave it in news. Your average climber with a non-parental income (read - the people with the $$ your advertisers want to reach) wants more than Sports Center. We want history, we want legend, we want to go "Hell Yeah! I did that route! I remember that move! Awesome!" Near perfection was reached when Climbing did the TRAD issue a while back. I bought TWO extra copies! It covered 5.5 It covered 5.11 It went to all sorts of areas and made the reader feel like part of the larger community. When does that happen in an article on traveling pros sending 14c like it was their job (it is). Take a look at the various web sites. Supertopo has had THREE extremely interesting threads recently. a) The HUGE controversy and history of Wings of Steel. b) Great pics and brief history of Karma on SFHD. c) Historic slabs and their history with comments from lots of greats.
I mean come on! There are so many interesting stories out there! Do your blurb on the latest sends and comps (Sports center section), then check out an exotic area (the travel section), then re-visit an old friend ( the classic climbs section) then look at all the routes out there that were SICK but never get talked about today (the history channel section) (southern belle or Autobahn are two routes just on Half Dome! Think of all the others! NH, NC, NY - all those areas have stuff with great stories)
and finish it off with a gear section once in a while. Oh, and when you review gear try and truly REVIEW IT. Two line blurbs pasted out of the company web site are laughable. Oh yeah... Bouldering? It's great. I like it. Many new youth do as well. But it's not the end all be all so stop telling me every time a new sit-start has been added to a problem I've never heard of. And the "Exposed" or "Gallery" sections? These names imply their contents should be AWE inspiring and there should be MORE THAN 1 or 2 pics. Take Note: Photos that contain in focus fingers with blurry faces are done. Too many shots like this. Fill Flash Photos: What's up with these? They're ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE lately. It's clever ONCE IN A WHILE. Recently they're everywhere. Not natural setting. Not Gallery Worthy. Lastly - leave the hip hop punk climber crap out. Alpinist took the "scholarly road" and Urban Climber nabbed the MTV crowd. Stay right in the middle where you've always been. Crap like "What's on your ipod?" or "How's your ladies situation?" makes me want to light the mag on fire!
Rock and Ice and Climbing. You've been great in the past. You can get there again. In the long run, quality and substance will sell more mags (and thus ads) than slick slang fill flash or "how's da climbing crew?" articles ever will
[end]
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miavzero
Aug 11, 2006, 7:22 PM
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looks as though God has once again failed to properly secure the latch on his tool box.
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j_ung
Aug 11, 2006, 7:26 PM
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Funny and constructive! I don't necessarily agree with it all, but trophy, nonetheless!
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mattm
Aug 11, 2006, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: looks as though God has once again failed to properly secure the latch on his tool box.
I welcome constructive criticism on the above and had hoped people would notice the [rant] preface of the post. You have done neither.
I fully realize there's a roped climbing slant in the above and let me explain why. I've found bouldering is something that doesn't translate well into print mags. The fun of bouldering for me is trying again and again on a problem until I solve it. To solve the puzzle if you will. It can be in a group or solo but because of their length, boulder problems are interesting and fun to be on a very minute level. What I mean is the problems appeal comes from the intimate knowledge of each crimp or sloper or pinch. You KNOW just where those fingers need to be to match and finish or rock over to top out. The problem is that this intimate knowledge is extremely hard to put into words or pictures. Unless I've felt the holds on that sit down start, the boulder problem has lost it's connection to me and thus my interest. There are pics of bouldering that are GREAT and an occasional article that achieves this intimacy, but they are few and far between. With route pictures (trad or sport) the intimacy isn't as needed. You can SEE a crack and how the fingers fit in there and know (on some level) what that climb is like. You can see an overhung sport climb (classic is predator in Rumney) and having never climbed it be affected by the shot. With articles you need only describe the runout above the last bolt or (harder) the aesthetic of the sport line to achieve a level of intimacy with the reader.
Simply put - I think bouldering is harder to translate well into print media and a better effort is needed to justify the amount of space it gets. But I think a better effort is needed for all articles, not just bouldering.
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j_ung
Aug 11, 2006, 7:28 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: looks as though God has once again failed to properly secure the latch on his tool box. I welcome constructive criticism on the above and had hoped people would notice the [rant] preface of the post. You have done neither.
But, it did give me another quip for the quivver. :)
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anykineclimb
Aug 11, 2006, 7:32 PM
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Hey now!
Rock And Ice IS bigger now!
bigger is better; right?? :wink:
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miavzero
Aug 11, 2006, 7:33 PM
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What does it mean when a thread goes from "pant loader" to "v3 chuffer"?
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veganboyjosh
Aug 11, 2006, 7:35 PM
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In reply to: In the long run, quality and substance will sell more mags (and thus ads) than slick slang fill flash or "how's da climbing crew?" articles ever will [end]
meanwhile, posting a rant on a message board run by neither climbing mag addressed will affect shit tons more change than an email, phone call, or --gasp--a print letter addressed directly to those in question, regarding the issues brought up herein ever will.
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mattm
Aug 11, 2006, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In the long run, quality and substance will sell more mags (and thus ads) than slick slang fill flash or "how's da climbing crew?" articles ever will [end] meanwhile, posting a rant on a message board run by neither climbing mag addressed will affect s--- tons more change than an email, phone call, or --gasp--a print letter addressed directly to those in question, regarding the issues brought up herein ever will.
Working on a more elegant version of the above to write in with...
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the_mitt
Aug 11, 2006, 7:48 PM
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I have to agree with Matt, I used to have subscriptions to 2 mags at different times now they are just useless spray. Why should I pay for spray when I can get it here for free :) I remember when R&I had the 5.9 and under section, I loved reading it.
Mitt
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kachoong
Aug 11, 2006, 8:07 PM
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I can see a little method in the madness of your little rant. There certainly is way too much news and focus on the few top notch climbers, however they've swayed a little lately, reporting on others who aren't so "well-known", which is good.
The thing is, that these not-so-well-known great climbers probably like the fact they're low key and prefer to stay that way. Most great climbers I've met and that haven't been on mag covers, have been quite modest and quiet personalities. They don't go in search of the newest, radest route to climb with subsequent brag/spray/publicity. Those we see and hear about regulary, shape their lives that way and have endless sponsorship to "satisfy". Not saying that the top-notch climbers aren't modest.... but they usually have to speak out about what they're doing to gain a living.
I would however agree that more "average" climber's stories should be published.... the epic that some would consider a bumbling mess of inexperience and n00bism is more than likely going to catch the attention of the average climber reader, than how many days it took someone, whom we hear regularly about, to climb every 14b/c at Rifle.
I'm sitting on the fence right now in regards to the the two mags you refer to.... with high percentage of the pages being advertisments, not too many new and diverse crags mentioned or stories of the Average Joe, I'm yet to decide upon the fate of my subscription money.
In reply to: Hey now! Rock And Ice IS bigger now! bigger is better; right?? :wink:
....on that note... I had to go and buy a whole new bigger bookshelf.... bastards! :wink:
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h
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Aug 11, 2006, 8:29 PM
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You've definitely got legit concerns, and as someone who used to work for Climbing, I can tell you it's tough to try to juggle what everyone wants. Everybody has a different idea about what should be in the ideal issue, and when you are trying to speak to a bunch of different angles, sometimes it comes out pretty crappy. And yeah, Alpinist is great, but not everyone can have a sugar daddy, or every mag would look that good.
For what it's worth, I think the latest issue (#250) of Climbing is one of the better issues in recent years, maybe since the Trad issue (lots of positive feedback on that one). They've gone back to featuring a classic climb of the month (High E this time around) and have changed up the format a bit. JT and company are finally putting out the mags they want to produce and I think most people are going to be pleased with the results.
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double
Aug 11, 2006, 8:43 PM
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I had a subscription to Climbing for a while, and have let it lapse. I recently looked at Climbing and saw that they had a section of Do's and Dont's, including what is cool to wear to the crag. Apparently jeans are in :roll: Starting to look more like Cosmo.
I find that you can get most of the breaking news on the websites. I too would like to see more in depth articles in climbing. Rock and Ice has had more depth to their articles in my experience. I agree with Matt...Climbing could go a little deeper.
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lunabruandabby
Aug 11, 2006, 9:11 PM
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I wrote Rock and Ice a couple of months ago, with a rant that was quite similar to the original post. After the Bouldering issue which contained almost no bouldering but a good bit of deep water soloing, I decided I was fed up. I promptly received an e-mail from Jeff Jackson and then another from Alison Osius. They assured me that my voice had been heard and all that crap. Of course they published the letter in the latest edition and managed to edit it to the point that I sounded like a foul mouthed fool. Foul mouthed indeed, but I am no fool. Rock and Ice fucking sucks. How can you call it a photo gallery and include two pictures? Anyway...I am with you. That doesn't mean that I am going to stop buying that shit ticket of a magazine, I am way too hooked on climbing but I hope they pull their heads out of their asses.
Justin
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mitguy
Aug 11, 2006, 9:40 PM
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This is why I read the Alpinist...
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natrajk
Aug 11, 2006, 9:45 PM
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In reply to: This is why I read the Alpinist...
Yup, Alpinist rocks!
K
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c-money
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Aug 11, 2006, 11:14 PM
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I think the rags are doing a pretty good job. R&I seems to have cut their gallery in exchange for more photos with the articles. I like their new format. Alpinist looks good as always, like others have mentioned. I have not seen any issues of Urban Climber in the local shops for a while, but assume they are still doing their thing.
The mags do need to step up in a few areas:
Their "reviews" seem to often include text right from product descriptions without any actual review at all. Can't piss off the advertisers I guess...
Gripped has to step it up. A recent article seemed to simply cut and paste items from Dr Topo.
The Fashion dos/don'ts are a joke:
In reply to: I recently looked at Climbing and saw that they had a section of Do's and Dont's, including what is cool to wear to the crag. Apparently jeans are in :roll:
I would like to see more simple cragging/trip-reports. Tell me about some new or lesser known area with a little helpful beta to get me psyched for the next trip!
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macherry
Aug 11, 2006, 11:31 PM
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the latest issue of climbing was the worst. For a 20th anniversary issue i expected so much more. No content, lots of dumbass filler including the 'fashion tips" and photoshopped pics of lynn hill (supposed to be humour).
I dunno, i thought with the new editorial staff there would be an improvement
my bad for expecting more!!!
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epsilon
Aug 11, 2006, 11:49 PM
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The new issue of Rock & Ice was worth it for the really good Tommy Caldwell article on El Cap. While I do find the current obsession in the mags about freeing big walls to be a bit of a fad, Caldwell's article was loaded both with information/history and some great photos.
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socialclimber
Aug 12, 2006, 4:46 AM
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In reply to: The Fashion dos/don'ts are a joke: In reply to: I recently looked at Climbing and saw that they had a section of Do's and Dont's, including what is cool to wear to the crag. Apparently jeans are in :roll: Who thought this was a good idea? Tips on fashion from climbers? No thanks. Has the legacy of lycra-tights not caused us all enough pain?
Fashion at the crag bothers me not a bit. I have Camaots, and quality never goes out of style.
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zozo
Aug 12, 2006, 4:55 AM
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Thats why i watch Family Guy.
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