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rocks_good_hippies_bad
Sep 7, 2006, 4:12 PM
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I'm looking at options for doubling up my cams. I currently have a set of Camalot C4s from 0.5 to 4 (and a bootied HB :D ). Of course, I could simply go with another set of Camalots but I would rather have a set that complements the camalots. Specifically, having optimum ranges where camalots could be more diffcult to place. Lightweight would also be important (obviously). Cost isn't that important because I work at REI.
Cams that I've considered so far are the Trango Flexcams, Metolius Powercams, Metolius TCUs (in smaller sizes). I'm not sure about the Trango Maxcams. They seem tricky to place and I'm still fairly new to trad.
As for my climbing, I've been leading trad for almost a year. I climb 5.7-5.8 multipitch in the Northeast (Cathedral and Cannon) and would like to get out to the Gunks.
Thanks for your ideas.
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caughtinside
Sep 7, 2006, 4:59 PM
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Well, just about any different brand of cam will be slightly different size wise from the camalots. So, the question becomes if you want to have doubles in the same sizes (this way you have less sizes to learn, and your rack is more 'standard' in that most climbers know camalot sizes) or if you want to have cams that are kind of in between camalot sizes.
I've tried both ways. Both are good. Right now, I'm using double camalots, for the sole reason that partners seem to prefer it. Less funky gear to know, you know?
But I've also used DMM and Aliens. And both work great. Invariably, partners who aren't used to using these cams (all dmms and larger aliens) are hesitant at first, but usually end up liking them. And can I just say that the larger aliens are awesome? But as usual, the kind of cam you will like is all personal preference. But aliens are great even in the big sizes because of their narrow heads. They'll go in shallow cracks where a camalot might be too wide.
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mince
Sep 7, 2006, 7:45 PM
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I would not recomend trango Max cams. They are inherently dangerous, in my OPINION. I have seen numorous placements become inverted, or disloged. Not to mention that they walk deep into some paralell cracks, never to be retrieved. Consider Metolius, or DMM, although the DMM cams always walk on me to. This is my opinion, just guidence, not the answer.
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trebork2
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Sep 7, 2006, 8:00 PM
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I love the Black Diamond cams but if you just need to have a set of something else I would go with Metolius. There TCU's are awesome as well for smaller cams. If I didn't go with Metolius I would have to agree with caughtinside and say get some Aliens. Trango Max cams are not worth the money. I have a friend who had a set and he has he will never own them again due to there design.
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zxcv
Sep 7, 2006, 8:03 PM
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I have a full set of Metolious ultralights to complement my full set of C4s. I generally only like black through purple however as the smaller sizes (for me anyway) are harder to place given their length and smaller triggers. The larger sizes are nice as a second set simply because they are lighter than C4s and operate smoothly. Below the metolious black I use Aliens- the smaller heads do offer many more placement options than C4s and the flexible stems are great for the Gunks horizontals and pockets. If I could only have one different cam company other than BD, it would be CCH as Aliens really do fit when C4s won't.
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euroford
Sep 7, 2006, 8:37 PM
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i've always felt DMM 4CU's compliment camalots very well size wise.
while being lightweight, well made and user friendly.
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andypro
Sep 7, 2006, 10:26 PM
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I'm going to throw out another vote for DMM's. I like em alot (probably my favorite). Trango cams seem to fit in well also. Tech friends are sized the same as the DMM's, so you could also go that route. I prefer the DMM's as thier nice and light, exceptional quality (not that the others arent), and you can use em with gloves on fairly easily (if that matters to you). Plus they've got the doubled slings, as do the trango's.
I have a mish mash on my rack of camalots, Metolius TCU's and FCU's (power cams I think), rock empire, trango TCU's and 4cams, DMM, rigid and tech friends, and possibly others I'm not thinking of...and find that they all compliment each other if you organize them right. The nice thing about having numerous brands is that no two cam series are sized exactly alike (aside from DMM and Friends), so you can line them all up can cover everything from 5mm to 8 inches and have plenty of overlap and no gaps to speak of.
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j_ung
Sep 8, 2006, 2:37 AM
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Wow, that's quite a trail of hypertext. I trophied the post with all the gear linked. :)
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angry
Sep 8, 2006, 2:57 AM
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If you have a full set of C4's, then you have a gap due to a very poor decision when they redesigned them. There is a hole in the old #4 Camalot size.
On paper it says you have the full range, but in practice it's simply not true. Example, you would die if you tried Carnivore in Indian Creek with C4's (no matter how many you brought) another example, Kent's Beach Party- I placed 7 #4 Camalots on the FA.
So you need a cam that will fill in the old #4 Camalot range (the new #4 is approx #3.7). The only thing I've found that covers this hole is the Rock Empire Pulsar #6. It's kinda rough and wierd but does not walk and is lighter than a Camalot. It's only $33, so it's not going to break the bank. Get one just in case.
And everything else, aliens and friends. DMM walk and Metolius has a funky range.
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carabiner96
Sep 8, 2006, 3:32 AM
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In reply to: I would not recomend trango Max cams. They are inherently dangerous, in my OPINION. I have seen numorous placements become inverted, or disloged. Not to mention that they walk deep into some paralell cracks, never to be retrieved. Consider Metolius, or DMM, although the DMM cams always walk on me to. This is my opinion, just guidence, not the answer.
if there's so much walking going on, sounds like someone needs to work on his placements!
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bill_in_tokyo
Sep 8, 2006, 3:40 AM
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Forged friends with gunks tie-off.
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mince
Sep 8, 2006, 6:10 AM
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there is always room to improve.
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gunkiemike
Sep 8, 2006, 10:12 AM
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Of the choices already mentioned, I'd suggest getting something that is narrower than the Camalots. Aliens and Met. clearly are in the smallest sizes. But notice how wide the 0.5-1 Camalots' heads are. Trango, Metolius Power Cams, and likely others are narrower enough to make a difference is some placements.
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rsmillbern
Sep 8, 2006, 12:50 PM
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I have a set of BD C4s .1 to 4 (.1 and .2 are the old style) and a set of Metolius 00 to 4 TCU and 5 to 10 FCU. In my opinion this seems to double up pretty much everything and they seem to work well.
I was going to double the C4s, but REI closed out the Metolius FCUs (w/o spectra slings) and I got the set for about $150 so....
The only downside I see is learning two sizes. I plan on picking up some tape in the color of the BDs to mark the Metolius cams, as I know those sizes better.
my 2 cents worth,
scoTt
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corpse
Sep 8, 2006, 1:31 PM
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I have a full set of MaxCams (almost 2 full sets, with 4 #2's) - and I really like them... I used them in indian creek and moab, and my placements always felt very solid - and they didn't walk on me. If my crack was perfectly vertical, like many IC cracks, I extended the sling and clipped into it - otherwise, I use a sling (duh).... If a cam is allowed to walk due to rope being whipped around, either you need a longer sling, or you need to handle the rope better (ie: belayer being more gentle/controlled in pulling in slack)...
The biggest nay sayers with maxcams seems to be the group of people that feel they should PUSH a cam into it's placement - and that's not PLACING a cam - people like that don't know HOW to use cams properly.
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gobotrocker
Sep 8, 2006, 1:42 PM
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I'd spend more time worried (as a newer leader) about placing those Cams correctly, especially in the smaller placements. I'd also ask you what cams feel best in your hand? A Buddie of mine was Jones-in for the new C3's til she had one in her hand and found the trigger tighter than what she was used to. Personal preference... I'd say this too, I have 2 different kinds of cams on my rack, any more than that is insane. Keep it simple.
Camalot's and Alien's for me.
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chh
Sep 8, 2006, 1:45 PM
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metolious tcu's for the smaller stuff. I have about 6 DMM cams that compliment my Camelots and I like them very much, though they are not the newest generation I think. I believe DMM or Metolious would be a good choice if you are set against the double set. I have some trango flex cams of the slightly older generation, and in the smaller sizes they are allright. I don't like the new flex cams in anything over a BD #1 though, the trigger action is just way to loose for me. I like a stiffer trigger. But, I only have 3 of the new ones, and having said that, the #5 flex cam fits great in between the .75 and 1 BD, a placement I seem to find a lot.
Dunno. Butter...margerine...po-TAY-toes....po-TAH-toes....
Have fun shopping! 8^)
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cruxy
Sep 8, 2006, 2:41 PM
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Go Metolius and throw in a few aliens just to mix it up!
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stymingersfink
Sep 11, 2006, 3:09 AM
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In reply to: Wow, that's quite a trail of hypertext. I trophied the post with all the gear linked. :)
However, the post at the end of the trail you refer to is the one I seem to link to most often, as the rack it describes has yet to come up short (outside the Creek of course, where it's nothing more than a contribution to the pile)! :wink:
Nice to see it's still appreciated, too.
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stymingersfink
Sep 11, 2006, 3:31 AM
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In reply to: I have a full set of MaxCams (almost 2 full sets, with 4 #2's) - and I really like them... I used them in indian creek and moab, and my placements always felt very solid - and they didn't walk on me. If my crack was perfectly vertical, like many IC cracks, I extended the sling and clipped into it - otherwise, I use a sling (duh).... If a cam is allowed to walk due to rope being whipped around, either you need a longer sling, or you need to handle the rope better (ie: belayer being more gentle/controlled in pulling in slack)... The biggest nay sayers with maxcams seems to be the group of people that feel they should PUSH a cam into it's placement - and that's not PLACING a cam - people like that don't know HOW to use cams properly.
As for me, MY cams NEVER walk. Ever. Huh-uh. I'm a pro, don't you know?
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andypro
Sep 11, 2006, 12:14 PM
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"Unsafe at Any Speed" was written regarding the Chevy Corvair. The video's RE. the ford pinto were actually made by 60 minutes I think, and they had to use incendiaries ot make it explode as it just plain wouldn't on it's own. They got in alot of trouble for that. Theres rumors that the whole thing was bankrolled and pushed by GM using 60 Minutes as the medium, but that's never been confirmed.
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stymingersfink
Sep 12, 2006, 4:10 AM
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Thanks for setting me straight on that one... i knew it was a car, just couldn't remember which one. It was before my time, afterall (or so I'm claiming... no, really it was).
and you did get my point, obviously. too bad most probably won't. Mal was going to send me a set of his "expanded range" cams to try in the field, and I was intent to do so with an open mind, but it seems they never made it through UPS, so no such luck.
i like to think I would have kept an open mind about them.... really.
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jaybro
Sep 12, 2006, 10:05 PM
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Metolius up to orange (various aliens if you do aid) Camalots above, Wild country for the biggest size.
I'd ssupplement the mid range BD's with WC'.
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