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builttospill
Oct 13, 2006, 3:56 AM
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So, after reading lots of stuff online (mostly this site) and thinking it over for quite awhile, I'm going to go ahead and buy a new skinny rope for alpine stuff. I ran a 9.7 this summer which was fine, but for longer approaches the weight savings of an 8mm or less would sure be nice. I'm very tempted to go to the extreme, since the alpine routes I climb are moderate, and buy a twin rope and just double it for areas where the risk of a fall is higher or where the impact force would be higher (i.e. glacier run it as a single and then double for short rock pitches, or run it as a single on lower-angle ice and then double for when it gets vertical).
I've also thought about just getting a half and running it as a single all the time....recognizing that falling on it is not really recommended. But halfs are made to take impact as singles in the system, correct (since your highest piece will catch the fall in a half rope system and presumably the other rope won't catch unless that top piece blows?)? If so, I might be tempted to use it that way on lower-risk routes and maybe bring the other half or a single on climbs with harder technical climbing.
I've been looking at the Mammut Twilight, which is 7.5mm. That's about as thin as it gets from what I can see, and it's only 38 grams. CAn't beat that for weight. The sticker on the rope says it's a half rope, and acmeclimbing.com says it's a twin. Which is it?
So if that's true, what would people recommend? I generally climb in easier, somewhat wandering rock in the Tetons and Wasatch, as well as ice routes. For roadside ice routes with any fall potential (like Provo Canyon) where I am actually pushing my technical limits, I'd be using a single more likely, or the full half/twin system, since weight wouldn't be a concern.
What should I get?
Edited for clarity.
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brent_e
Oct 13, 2006, 5:03 AM
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hi,
did you look into one of those mummooooot 8.9 mm singles?
dunno much about them, but maybe it's another....possibly safer option all around?
or a beal joker. 9.1mm. heavier, obviosly.
Brent
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anykineclimb
Oct 13, 2006, 5:44 AM
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In reply to: hi, did you look into one of those mummooooot 8.9 mm singles? dunno much about them, but maybe it's another....possibly safer option all around? or a beal joker. 9.1mm. heavier, obviosly. Brent
Mummooooot??
I thought it was MahmoooooooT :?
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builttospill
Oct 13, 2006, 5:55 AM
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My bad bill_in_tokyo.....sorry about that. Yeah, it's clearly marked as a twin on the specs sheet with the rope now that I look at it. The sticker the store put on it calls it a 1/2. Oh well.
What's the lightest half rope option? Perhaps the Beal Ice Line at 8.1mm? That's 42 grams per meter. Any other options? The Joker looks good, but I'm not sure that 53 grams per meter is enough of a weight savings over my 9.7 to justify the money.
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builttospill
Oct 13, 2006, 5:05 PM
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So here's a question.....has anyone ever tested a twin rope as a single for the number of UIAA falls it would stand up to (guessing only one, but that's just my hypothesis). What about using a twin for easier routes with a partner who is less confident, so there is almost no chance of falling on lead, but there may be toprope falls? I mean I'm certain it would hold them, but is one toprope fall or a few going to ruin a twin rope?
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dps
Oct 13, 2006, 8:00 PM
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Take a look at the Mammut Phoenix ropes. 8mm half ropes that weigh 41 g/m. I've been using a set for the last couple years and they are holding up very well.
I personally dislike the Beal Ice Line because it stretches sooo freaking much. Great impact force, so nice for ice climbing but usless for anything else in my opinion.
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stymingersfink
Oct 16, 2006, 12:11 AM
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i have led pitches I would otherwise solo trailing 1/2 of a twin rope for the second to come up on. Fine, as long as I'm not falling. The second can fall as there won't be much slack in the system so no worries, barring any sharp edges or tool sticks.
Beal Ice-Line 8.1mm is what I lead for real on though. Sounds like you better get used to handling it, too. :wink:
get the 70M ropes though. a little extra to cut off when you've put crampon and pick points through the first ten feet of it.
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cchildre
Dec 28, 2006, 6:02 PM
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Just some points, not sure if this is what your saing or not, so please bear with me.
First, you should really not mix twin and double rope techniques mid route. The result could cause the ropes to run at different speeds where they are clipped together on a single piece of pro under the twin technique. The first placement should have both lines clipped in even when using doubles.
Second, some ropes are multipurpose like the Joker, but most are targeted to their technique and should be used as such. Using them in a different manner could have unforseen results. Such as using a double rope as a twin can result in a much higher impact force, and vise versa, the twin has a much higher failure rate used as a double.
Not knowing your experience level, or exactly what your doing with them. You might have already considered these points. Using a single twin as a lead line on moderate routes, not recommended, but were it to be something you might typically solo, why not. Last point, doing this with a noob, remember how much harder it will be for them to catch a fall given the smaller rope diameter. LOL, and don't let them use a Gri, ;) LMAO!
Climb safe.
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stymingersfink
Dec 29, 2006, 2:27 AM
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cchildre wrote: (half-ropes) where they are clipped together on a single piece of pro under the twin technique.
When I feel the need to clip both halfs of my double to a single piece, I will usually clip one with a draw, then clip the other with a standard length sling, making sure that they will not draw across each other when possible.
Of course, placing another piece near the first would be better, but the above technique is a compromise I sometimes find acceptable for ME.
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sterlingjim
Dec 29, 2006, 5:27 PM
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cchildre wrote: The first placement should have both lines clipped in even when using doubles.
This is not a good idea. As was said, half ropes clipped as twin will result in higher impact force. Clipping them both at your first piece will only make this fact more serious. Even if you clip both with separate biners on that same piece you will have the highest impact force you could possibly get on that piece (relative to the particular fall factor).
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cchildre
Dec 29, 2006, 5:55 PM
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sterlingjim wrote: cchildre wrote: The first placement should have both lines clipped in even when using doubles. This is not a good idea. As was said, half ropes clipped as twin will result in higher impact force. Clipping them both at your first piece will only make this fact more serious. Even if you clip both with separate biners on that same piece you will have the highest impact force you could possibly get on that piece (relative to the particular fall factor).
I was lead to believe that the first placement, that is the one that protects the belayer at the anchor, should be clipped together. I am guessing this is reguarding a multipitch situation. This would not be necessary on the first pitch, since a fall below the belayer would not need to be redirected off the anchor since the leader would be hitting the ground. Only clipping the single rope at the anchor. Could a complete failure during a fall that zipped everything back to the anchor and a failure of the rope running through the anchor, cause a problem with the belayer with no redirect? I understand the higher impact force, and realize this is a unlikely situation, but shouldn't we consider it. I have had trouble finding reliable info on this matter. Are there any books that discuss the matter, or links?
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sterlingjim
Dec 29, 2006, 6:49 PM
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cchildre wrote: sterlingjim wrote: cchildre wrote: The first placement should have both lines clipped in even when using doubles. This is not a good idea. As was said, half ropes clipped as twin will result in higher impact force. Clipping them both at your first piece will only make this fact more serious. Even if you clip both with separate biners on that same piece you will have the highest impact force you could possibly get on that piece (relative to the particular fall factor). I was lead to believe that the first placement, that is the one that protects the belayer at the anchor, should be clipped together. I am guessing this is reguarding a multipitch situation. This would not be necessary on the first pitch, since a fall below the belayer would not need to be redirected off the anchor since the leader would be hitting the ground. Only clipping the single rope at the anchor. Could a complete failure during a fall that zipped everything back to the anchor and a failure of the rope running through the anchor, cause a problem with the belayer with no redirect? I understand the higher impact force, and realize this is a unlikely situation, but shouldn't we consider it. I have had trouble finding reliable info on this matter. Are there any books that discuss the matter, or links?
Belay anchors on multi pitch routes should always be set up with the assumption there could be a factor 2 fall and the resulting redirection of the belay. That said, clipping a single strand will achieve the same goal as clipping both but without the higher impact force.
Rope 'failure' is highly unlikely but of course is possible. The chances of the second rope failing are nearly zero even if the fall is held directly by the belayer (the fall factor is no longer 2 since there was energy absorption with the theoretical first rope failure). The clipping of both strands into the first piece increases the likelihood of that piece ripping due to the higher impact.
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cchildre
Dec 30, 2006, 12:18 AM
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That was I started thinking might be the case halfway through my last post. Points taken, thanks for the education on this matter.
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