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mtnjoe5259
Oct 4, 2006, 4:55 PM
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I've been asked to enter into a business venture that would tie in a large rubber oriented company to the rock climbing shoe business. This company wants me to help them develop rock climbing shoes.
I'm debating on whether I should dive right in or not, so....
Can a company make a better rock shoe? Are there any limitations or suggestions anyone can throw my way that would make improvements to current climbing shoes (Sportiva, 5.10, Mad Rock, etc.)?
I'll take any comments good or bad. Lay it on me!
Joseph
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percious
Oct 4, 2006, 5:11 PM
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If you could mate the quality of workmanship of La Sportiva with the rubber of either evolv or 5.10 you would have a winner.
-percious
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summerprophet
Oct 4, 2006, 5:13 PM
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Honestly, Rock Shoes and cams are the things everyone is trying to make better, but in all honesty, They work pretty bloody well as is right now. I would seek other ventures. The market is flooded with rock shoes.
The only way to be sucsessful is to undercut the competitions prices, which I imagine would be pretty hard to do.
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grampacharlie
Oct 4, 2006, 5:21 PM
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I think so.
First off, a comfortable high heal rand. (heal hooking)
Next, lacing that comes up a little higher than say the 5.10 spires, but not exactly a high top shoe, and reaches down to the toe. (security of fit)
Then, make it all leather so it conforms to your foot, but don't put a lot of stupid designs and stitching all over it. More stitches, more room for failure.
*thicker stiffer leather lasts a little longer, but is less comfortable and less flexible. (gets really hard and painful if they dry out wrong)
* Thinner leather stretches more alowing for greater comfort, but can border on sloppiness. (hence the greater lace range)
Unlined leather, for medium volume feet.
i'll take an order for a 9.5 and a 10, u.s. sizing.
Thanks! :lol:
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grampacharlie
Oct 4, 2006, 5:22 PM
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I think so.
First off, a comfortable high heal rand. (heal hooking)
Next, lacing that comes up a little higher than say the 5.10 spires, but not exactly a high top shoe, and reaches down to the toe. (security of fit)
Then, make it all leather so it conforms to your foot, but don't put a lot of stupid designs and stitching all over it. More stitches, more room for failure.
*thicker stiffer leather lasts a little longer, but is less comfortable and less flexible. (gets really hard and painful if they dry out wrong)
* Thinner leather stretches more alowing for greater comfort, but can border on sloppiness. (hence the greater lace range)
Unlined leather, for medium volume feet.
i'll take an order for a 9.5 and a 10, u.s. sizing.
Thanks! :lol:
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devils_advocate
Oct 4, 2006, 5:47 PM
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I think Prophet nailed it.
I also think that anyone that thinks they don't make good shoes hasn't found the shoe that's good for them. Everybody's feet are different, unless you've got some mutant planters, there should be a shoe out there that fits your feet and your needs. Unless you're being unrealistic and want super soft rubber that last forever, or a single piece, stiff leather upper that molds to your foot, one of the nine million shoes out there should work. And once you find one that works, stock up, they won't make it forever.
Shoes can wear out fast, and they're not safety equipment, so it's obvious why it's a prime choice of equipment to make. Cams on the otherhand, while they are safety equipment, are shinny tech looking gadgets; everyone knows that sells. Unless you have a great idea on how to revolutionize one of these two hot products, I wouldn't jump in just to be another copy cat that didn't make it.
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sspssp
Oct 4, 2006, 5:50 PM
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In reply to: Can a company make a better rock shoe? Are there any limitations or suggestions anyone can throw my way that would make improvements to current climbing shoes
The market is saturated, but there are some things that I still don't understand why nobody (or almost nobody) isn't doing.
Rock shoes are designed to be worn very tight. Why don't rock shoes (or at least the most popular models) come in a wide, standard, and narrow version? I can order my hiking books (which don't require a skin tight fit) this way, but not my rock shoes. For guys with short and narrow feet, women's shoes have been a blessing. I have narrow feet, but women's models only go up to about 40~42's, not big enough.
Rock shoes are designed to be worn very tight. Why doesn't everybody (kudos to Evolve) let you order mismatched sizes (pre-pay with a 10~20% surcharge). I used to switch shoes in boxes at REI until they put the boxes in the backroom. I would prepay with a surcharge (cheaper than buying two paris which is what I do now).
Why doesn't anyone offer a high tech shoe for those with Morton's toe (second toe longer). Most, symmetric shoes are klunky beginner shoes. Elvove has the Demorto, but it is still marketed (and I assume designed) as an all-day multi-pitch shoe. Hey, there are climbers out there with Morton's Toe that boulder and climb hard overhanging routes. The Demorto or the Mythos (the best overall shoe I know of for us Morton's toe climbers) are not designed for this environment.
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tgreene
Oct 4, 2006, 6:02 PM
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Personally, I feel that if you're gping to be able to compete in this market these days, then YOU have to be a well known & well rounded climber yourself...
How can you know what we want, desire & need, if YOU don't want, desire & need these things yourself..?
Acopa is what it is because of Bachar, who relies on perfect footwork to stay alive, since he is a free soloist. Because of this, he is also able to best design the "perfect" shoe for a given style of climbing.
Just my $.02, but you asked.
-Tim
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kingofthefourpointnines
Oct 4, 2006, 6:40 PM
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I agree with Percious (Christopher Perkins) but would like to add some points...........I like the way La Sportiva creates a toe box that is excellent for using the tip of your toes and I like their workmanship. However, although I've owned 2 pairs of La Sportiva Muiras, I use 5.10 Anasazis because of the secure feel of their rubber on rock..........they kill my toes but their rubber is awesome.
If you could use the best aspects of these 2 companies, I would be a consumer!
Good luck.
Mike
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markc
Oct 5, 2006, 2:10 PM
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In reply to: I agree with Percious (Christopher Perkins) but would like to add some points...........I like the way La Sportiva creates a toe box that is excellent for using the tip of your toes and I like their workmanship. However, although I've owned 2 pairs of La Sportiva Muiras, I use 5.10 Anasazis because of the secure feel of their rubber on rock..........they kill my toes but their rubber is awesome. If you could use the best aspects of these 2 companies, I would be a consumer!
A bit off-topic, but you could consider resoling sooner than necessary with your preferred rubber. You may already be doing that when a resole is needed.
In another thread, someone asked why there weren't any climbing shoes with lighter-colored rubber. I can think of several occasions where my feet are baking on a route, and I've repositioned at the belay to cast a shadow over them. An all-day shoe with mid-gray rubber and a light upper might do well.
I have a friend with fairly wide, flat feet. The only shoes that really work for him are fairly entry-level. As others suggested, filling voids like that may be the best strategy if you're getting into an already crowded market.
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microbarn
Oct 5, 2006, 2:23 PM
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Just another poster echoing the need for narrow shoe sizes. I try on a lot of shoes and cinch down the laces/straps all the way to get it to fit my width. Knowing that shoes stretch more in the lateral direction rather then length....I can't buy these shoes.
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stymingersfink
Oct 5, 2006, 10:33 PM
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My sportiva Enduros (?) are nearly over it, and I missed out on the last Mega that was available in my size (43.5). Damn.
How about another high-top board-lasted lace-up? It's been done before, but you could update it for the 21st century... maybe those neat little flashy lights in the heel cushion? Or how about a Heelie style bouldering shoe, so you could roll up to your local urban boulder-ling crag, flash a few moves to impress the girls, then roll off into the sunset? :P
ok, enough of that. tgreene hit the nail on the head. 'nuff said.
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josephgdawson
Oct 6, 2006, 6:58 AM
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I would love to see someone come out with a white sticky rubber for shoes. Anyone who has climbed on a hot and sunny days knows that your toes can get so god damned hot it will shut you down.
An old timer told that white rubbers have been tried in the past but they were not sticky because they had a low carbon content.
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thor4life144
Oct 18, 2006, 4:58 AM
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One thing that I think would really set your name off in the shoe market is figure out a way to heat mold the shoe to your foot. Sort of like the Ospery belts. That way, you will have the perfect fit for EVERYONES foot. I have no idea HOW you would do this, but I love the idea.
Also would be incredible for harnesses
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omegaprime
Oct 18, 2006, 5:11 AM
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In reply to: One thing that I think would really set your name off in the shoe market is figure out a way to heat mold the shoe to your foot. Sort of like the Ospery belts. That way, you will have the perfect fit for EVERYONES foot. I have no idea HOW you would do this, but I love the idea.
Done. Montrail Wasabi.
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afreeclimber
Oct 18, 2006, 5:41 PM
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How about shoes with a freak'n laser!-you could aim before you step; no more sloppy footwork. Blinking LED lights would help somehow also.
Lesser Concerns:
Shoes that last longer or at least are designed to be easily/cheaply repaired at the toe.
Shoes that are rigid around the sides for crack climbing, but still supple enough around the bottom/toe to allow good feel on small holds.
Shoes that are made to accept something like an insulated gator. Everybody winds up climbing outside when it's a little colder than comfortable. Shoes that come with, or at least designed to accept, a nice insulating layer that attaches securely and comes up to mid calf would rock.
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