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jds100
Sep 25, 2001, 9:45 PM
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I just got my copy of Rock & Ice, and I noticed a caption to a picture of Tori Allen; it says that her agent has booked the Today show to film her ascent of a particular climb. She will not be the first person to climb this route; she will not be the first woman to climb this grade; it will not be her onsighting the climb. It will simply be her successfully, presumably, climbing the route which she has attempted before.
My issue with this is not really the big issue of commercialization of climbing, per se, but rather the use of climbing by an agent and one individual to further the one individual's agenda (her commercial exposure to, I assume they hope, make money).
This is not a unique climbing experience that will set some new standard, nor is it something that adds to the climbing community or the larger non-climbing community in some spiritual way. I can't think of another climb -or climber- that was so overtly commercial in its aim.
The "secular" community, so to speak, will not know that dozens or hundreds of people have already done what she's doing in climbing. It's fine if she wants to do circus tricks on TV to promote....what? She's only promoting herself, not climbing.
I know in this land of the free-market system she has the right to do this kind of self-serving thing, but is there anything admirable about it? How can this be good, specifically, for climbing at large? Or, is it just self-promotion?
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vishnuepie
Sep 25, 2001, 10:22 PM
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Ive got nothin against tori, but a lot of what jds is sayin is kinda true
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jds100
Sep 25, 2001, 10:22 PM
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Please be specific on how I slandered anyone with my questions and opinions.
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jhundrup
Sep 25, 2001, 10:34 PM
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I think that it is great. If someone wanted to film me climbing I would do it in a second, especially if I could get paid for it. Also, won't it be nice to turn on the TV and see someone climbing?! I like the news, but I really like climbing, and it will be fun to watch someone climb on the regular channels rather than the outdoor life channel.
Jared
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manboy
Sep 25, 2001, 10:36 PM
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[ This Message was edited by: manboy on 2001-10-05 21:41 ]
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jds100
Sep 25, 2001, 11:17 PM
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Manboy, I think your response was great all by itself. If your buddy wants to respond, that's fine, but you don't need his help to support your opinions. I don't agree with them, but your opinions seem to be well thought out.
It's not slander to say that she's promoting herself. If the emphasis is on the fact that she is so young, then this event is indeed about her, not about climbing. Whether or not you agree with that charactrization certainly does not raise my opinion to the level of slander.
I think probably the biggest difference that we see in this situation is that I don't think climbing and climbing destinations need to be elevated to the level of the poplular sports. I do think there could be a slight and temporary increase in beginner interest, that will lead to some (I think) miniscule number of new memberships. As a point of curiosity, I wonder how local climbers at the Red will feel if there is a sudden influx of climbing activity, given the somewhat sensitive nature of access issues still being negotiated there. Do you know if the climbers group there were consulted? I know there would be no "requirement" to do so, but it would be the proper courtesy.
I also don't think more money, or big money, is necessarily good for the sport. Maybe it could lead to your being able to make a living as a climber, but at what expense to the climbing destinations as popularity grows? At what expense to the standards of the sport (ethics,...sorry to bring that up, but big money typically influences activities to its own ends, not necessarily the desires of the participants of the activity themselves)?
I think I'm like most of us, in that I am not now, and will not be able to pursue a dream of becoming a professional climber. Unlike basketball, baseball, and even golf, the resources for climbing are relatively limited, can't be constructed like a new park or course, and suffer more and permanently from over-use. Unless professional climbers and any big money sources promise to keep their professional activities indoors -where new venues CAN be built- I would be concerned about the degradation of my amateur experience at the crags, cliffs, and mountains of the public lands. Again, this is in consideration of climbing reaching the level of popularity of the major sports, for participants AND spectators.
[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-09-25 16:24 ]
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metoliusmunchkin
Sep 25, 2001, 11:38 PM
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I think that I would have to agree with Manboy's statement's. Tori Allen is very unique in her climbing abilities at her age. She has set very many mile stones in climbing, for being the youngest person to climb such routes and grades as she has.
The fact that she is just promoting herself and not climbing, to me this statement really doesn't make sense. If someone sees Tori and recognises her, that person will know what sport she is in, therefor Tori is promoting climbing aswell as herself at the same time.
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iclimb512s
Sep 27, 2001, 12:16 AM
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has anyone been to her(tori allen) website? if you ask me, she seems kind of cocky. theres a link that says click here for autograph and all this stuff. how long has she been climbing? i have friends that can climb 12d and they have only been climbing for a few months. if you ask me, they should get cris sharma or steph davis or someone like that up on the today show, but thats just me. im not trying to be negative, i just want to me this girl and see how well she really climbs. im just tired of all these people trying to compete with the rest of the climbing world by telling everyone they can climb this or that and that they have only been climbing for this long or that long. cant we just chill and have fun. im down with it! u??
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vishnuepie
Sep 27, 2001, 12:24 AM
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tori allen is a great climber, esp for her age, way better than me, and i respect her a lot, but ive got to say ive got way more respect for that 300 lbs guy who makes it up a 5.12 than a 60 lbs girl
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climber_girl
Sep 27, 2001, 12:25 AM
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K, well I am 13 and I can climb pretty good I must say. Just I think this is ging a little too far. I could see her like the youngest person to attemt climbing Everest or sumthing and I wouldn't mind watching that but you know that she won't do it. I think that adding more popularity to the sport kinda sucks because then soo many people that have no clue wut they are doing will be trying to climb and stuff and there will be many many more deaths on mountains so climbing will get a bad name as like being a very very dangerous sport. Not to be greedy or anything and stuff its just that I think the way climbing is right now is fine, not too popular and not too unpopular. To me, this is just a bad thing for the climbing sport. Sorry if this sounds stupid and maybe rude, i just think this is going just a tiny liitle to far(maybe a lot
Just putting in my slice of the pie!
[ This Message was edited by: climber_girl on 2001-09-26 17:28 ]
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iclimb512s
Sep 28, 2001, 8:38 PM
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I think its ok to commercialize climbing, cause most people that see it wont have the balls to actually stick with even if they try it. i wouldnt worry about deaths or anything like that. plus, if we get some rich guys into climbing, we can get em' to support access fund and abs. see, we can use em! just kiddin.
Climb on.
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iclimb512s
Sep 28, 2001, 8:41 PM
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also, i have no doubt that she is a great climber, but she just seems(to me) a little cocky. i guess if i was in rock&ice, my head probably wouldnt fit through the door!!!
CLimb on.
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