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bigfatrock
Feb 7, 2007, 7:59 PM
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I am still fairly new to climbing and had a question in regards to red point ascents. Is it ever common practice to top rope a route before climbing it on sport or does on usually lead it and take numerous falls to learn the route before climbing it on lead? I am curious because I am always reading about climbers red pointing routes but hear very little about how the got the red point.
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anthonycuskelly
Feb 7, 2007, 8:05 PM
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Most people will just try and lead it, the number of falls depends a bit. The only time I know of people toproping before leading is if there's a scary lack of gear, or if they're a beginner. As an indication:
Onsight: Someone lead the climb without beta (knowledge of the climb), and without previously attempting it.
Redpoint: Someone lead the climb. This may involve toproping, previous lead attempts, lots of beta. Some only consider it a redpoint if any gear (trad gear or quickdraws) was placed on lead.
Pinkpoint: Someone lead the climb, on pre-placed gear. Often considered the same as a redpoint.
Dogged: Someone fell lots attempting to lead the climb.
Pinkpointing, dogging, toproping, aiding can all go into a redpoint, it's not considered important. Hope that helps.
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112
Feb 7, 2007, 8:12 PM
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Redpoint describes the actual 'succseful' ascent.
It says nothing about the previous 'pratice' runs.
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bigfatrock
Feb 7, 2007, 8:20 PM
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112 wrote: Redpoint describes the actual 'succseful' ascent. It says nothing about the previous 'pratice' runs.
Right, I realize that, but my question is how do people prepare for a redpoint? Are they working the route on top rope until the have the route memorized or are they taking numerous falls on lead then coming back to the problem to get the redpoint?
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silascl
Feb 7, 2007, 8:41 PM
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Basically, those are both common tactics to practice before you redpoint a route. If there is a bolt right before the crux you're working, not a big fall, may as well lead. If a crux happens to be a dangerous fall (not too likely but possible) then top roping may be a better method. Really just depends on the situation
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112
Feb 7, 2007, 9:42 PM
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bigfatrock wrote: 112 wrote: Redpoint describes the actual 'succseful' ascent. It says nothing about the previous 'pratice' runs. Right, I realize that, but my question is how do people prepare for a redpoint? Are they working the route on top rope until the have the route memorized or are they taking numerous falls on lead then coming back to the problem to get the redpoint?
I see, this is a question about different training techniques.
Personnally I don't train for Redpoints. I attempt to climb in the spirit of onsight climbing. 1st time go. If you get it clean on subsequent attempts; its just training.
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caughtinside
Feb 7, 2007, 9:44 PM
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112 wrote: Personnally I don't train for Redpoints. I attempt to climb in the spirit of onsight climbing. 1st time go. If you get it clean on subsequent attempts; its just training.
no, if you get it clean on subsequent attempts, it's redpointing.
which can also be training.
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112
Feb 7, 2007, 10:28 PM
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caughtinside wrote: no, if you get it clean on subsequent attempts, it's redpointing. which can also be training.
I don't think you understand MY statement. To ME it is just training (a particular form called redpointing). To you it may be a goal in and of itself.
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caughtinside
Feb 7, 2007, 10:35 PM
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112 wrote: caughtinside wrote: no, if you get it clean on subsequent attempts, it's redpointing. which can also be training. I don't think you understand MY statement. To ME it is just training (a particular form called redpointing). To you it may be a goal in and of itself.
No, I got what you were saying.
I just thought it was silly, so I'd harass you about it a bit.
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deadhorse
Feb 11, 2007, 7:30 PM
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don't forget to mention flash; a redpoint on the first attempt of a climb that particular visit, but having already climbed it at a previous date
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overlord
Feb 11, 2007, 7:55 PM
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deadhorse wrote: don't forget to mention flash; a redpoint on the first attempt of a climb that particular visit, but having already climbed it at a previous date
no, thats totally wrong...
flash i climbing the climb in first try (no falls) with some beta. it is basicly an onsight with beta.
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musicman1586
Feb 11, 2007, 9:13 PM
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deadhorse wrote: don't forget to mention flash; a redpoint on the first attempt of a climb that particular visit, but having already climbed it at a previous date
As already stated, a flash is a dumbed down onsight, you can't flash a route if you've ever been on it before. You can flash a route in many ways though: if you've watched someone climb the route already before you get on it, then it's a flash if you send it first go, if you get beta while on the ground or while on the climb it's a flash, some go as far as saying that if you've even talked about the climb with someone ie: "the key is to get your left hand on the flake and drop knee" that you only get the flash, etc.
Anyways, to the OP as others have said, a redpoint mearly means you lead it with no pre-placed gear, nothing more, nothing less. However, I would like to say that if your sport climbing (clipping bolts) pink-pointing really doesn't "exist' in alot of places, typically you can claim a redpoint if you had draws hanging already, as most hard sport routes are sent in this manner. This is because the general ease of clipping bolts compared to placing gear. However, with trad climbing pink-pointing and red-pointing are two very different things, as placing gear really does add an entirely different aspect to the climb.
On a counterpoint though, I will say that in some areas people take placing draws on lead seriously, so you might hear some dissenting opinions, and on top of that, there are climbs where clipping bolts is a major part of the route, I can think of one off the top of my head where one of the major cruxes in the route is clipping the second bolt.
Kyle
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