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becker513
Feb 10, 2007, 5:04 AM
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I recently started leading, and at the gym where I took the course they instructed to use gri gri's (and used them throughout the course as well.) Prior to climbing anything before this, i used an atc. I found the gri gri a little cumbersome at first but got used to it fairly quickly. I've yet to lead with an atc though and was wondering how different that will be. What is your preference of the two?
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squamishdirtbag
Feb 10, 2007, 5:13 AM
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'I've yet to lead with an atc'
I don't get it! Belay a leader, or climb with an atc belay?
Aside from self belay methods. I see no advantage in hauling a mammoth sized thing around. And besides using a gri gri encourages lazyness.
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ovet
Feb 10, 2007, 5:15 AM
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Sincerely i only like to use gri gri if someone is top roping... why because is not that easy to give rope....
also you shouldn't use it in trad because of unfair load (rope, system, etc)
I prefer to use an ATC or a reverso.. (i use more the reverso than ATC) because you have more control of rope.. but you need to be concentrate in your partner...
BUT AT THE END... if you use grigri to NOT hold the rope all the time...better not climb.... EVEN if you are using the gri gri you have to HOLD the rope with the "2" hands.... so ?
Anyhow you can master ANY system.... but ... still they were created for a REASON....
THAAATS enough for me hahahah
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coastal_climber
Feb 10, 2007, 5:22 AM
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I find the ATC enables you to 'feel' the climber, something the gri gri isn't good at letting you do. Gr Gri's also weight a ton more, so thats one more thing. Also cost is a factor, are you willing to dish out $80 for something that lets you only load one rope? If this is your first device, then I would recommend getting an ATC. If this is going to be a second belay device, then its your choice.
>Cam
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drfelatio
Feb 10, 2007, 6:01 AM
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I'd go with the ATC over a Gri-Gri, but I wouldn't get the standard ATC. I'd spend a little extra money and get either an ATC-XP or an ATC Guide. It really depends on what you will be climbing. If you're just sport cragging then the XP is a good buy, but if you need to bring up a second for something multi-pitch, then go with the Guide.
However, even better than the XP would be a Trango Cinch. Like the Gri-Gri, the Cinch is an autolocker, but they're lighter, smaller, and cheaper than a Gri-Gri and I think they work better too. Feeding the rope is ultra smooth and if your climber hang-dogs, the Cinch locks off real tight making it a piece of cake for you to hold them.
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kriso9tails
Feb 10, 2007, 6:26 AM
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I tend to switch between my ATC and Grigri depending on the situation. I like my ATC because I can rap off it, but if you're belaying someone that's seriously hangdogging the route and taking a lot of falls with long rests then an auto-locking device is a godsend.
People will most often tell you that belaying with a Grigri isn't as smooth as an ATC or similar device... I've never found this to be the case. I acually find the Grigri lends itself better to belaying sport leads if you know how to use it properly and use it often... it's just not as vesatile a device overall (usually not the prime consideration for sport) and it's not as cheap as an ATC.
Weight is another concern for some people. For sport I've just never seen it as a factor worth much consideration.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Feb 10, 2007, 6:29 AM)
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Davey
Feb 10, 2007, 8:10 AM
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I really like the GriGri for top roping on a long day. But the GgiGri is to hard to feed out. The atc really does let you feel the climber. I’ve found that the ATC helps me to focus because I need to be more attentive with it. For sure get an ATC XP OR ATC Guide. I would spring for the guide because even if you don’t plan on belaying a second it’s always nice to have the option and it really doesn’t cost that much more than the XP.
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overlord
Feb 10, 2007, 12:58 PM
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well, atc is good for learning to belay (forces you to focus on the climber), is lightweight and versatile.
grigri is good for sport climbing, especially when the leader does a lot of dogging. but it is not a good device to learn belaying with because it doesnt force you to focus on the leader (thus most ppl who learned to belay with one are pretty lousy belayers), is a bit heavier and less versatile.
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becker513
Feb 10, 2007, 3:16 PM
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i have the same mindset that most of you seem to have, as people with gri gri's becoming lazy belayers. I didnt have trouble feeding rope to the belayer in time, you just have to anticipate their moves; but thanks for the beta
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drumcorpsguy04
Feb 12, 2007, 8:04 PM
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I learned to belay on an ATC
was forced to use a gri-gri for awhile while doing some gym climbing out west.
Definitely prefer the feel of the ATC. I like being able to feel the climber. Feeding the rope out is definitely difficult with the gri-gri while leading.
Personally I prefer the ATC all the way around (top rope, leading)
It's all honestly a personal opinion, that's why both are still being manufactured. Some people prefer one and some the other. I just feel that if I'm so lazy that I want to use a gri-gri I shouldn't be climbing.
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deadhorse
Feb 12, 2007, 9:18 PM
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lead belays with an ATC are fun, with a gri gri stressful. your not sure if when you really need it the rope will feed fast enough or not etc.
i think the XP is overrated. I don't ever need more friction than my atc delivers. that said i use a 10.2.
I've got a strong bond with my ATC.
I have and love my (modded) gri gri, but use it only for solos and working-the-proj TRs. But it's kind of a bummer that it's only got single rope capability- you cant ONLY have a gri gri and be able to clean a route.
If you like the autoolocking factor then check the cinch out, lighter, and feeds better. I'm tryin to get one myself.
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redpoint73
Feb 12, 2007, 9:39 PM
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deadhorse wrote: lead belays with an ATC are fun, with a gri gri stressful. your not sure if when you really need it the rope will feed fast enough or not etc. i think the XP is overrated. I don't ever need more friction than my atc delivers. that said i use a 10.2. I've got a strong bond with my ATC. I have and love my (modded) gri gri, but use it only for solos and working-the-proj TRs. But it's kind of a bummer that it's only got single rope capability- you cant ONLY have a gri gri and be able to clean a route. If you like the autoolocking factor then check the cinch out, lighter, and feeds better. I'm tryin to get one myself.
I love my XP when belaying or rapping with my 8.1mm doubles when they are all iced up, and I am wearing gloves.
Belaying with a Grigri is second nature to me, and I love it. I much prefer it for sport climbing. It makes holding your hangdog partner much easier when working routes, and its a useful safety tool.
That said, I don't recommend the Grigri for fledgeling lead belayers. Its best to learn to belay with an ATC, then possibly graduate to the Grigri.
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blueeyedclimber
Feb 12, 2007, 9:45 PM
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A lot of people are making gross generalizations here without the experience to back it up. The grigri is a wonderful device but is not for the inexperienced. It doesn't make you lazy, you have to know more (not less) to use it.
When learning to lead climb, you should be learning on an atc, but with experience should familiarize yourself with the grigri. There are a lot situations when they come in handy.
For those who are saying that it's harder to feed, I say that i can belay just as effectively with either device.
A few instances when a grigri is better:
1. In toproping or sport, when someone is dogging
2. When climber is heavier than belayer in the above instance, but not if belayer is anchored down.
3. In self-rescue, to set up a haul or lower yourself down to climber.
4. When guiding toprope groups
I disagree with any gym that says you must use a grigri to lead belay, because any device in the hands of someone who is not used to it spells trouble. ATC's are the standard still for belaying, not grigris. Gyms should realize this and not force people to use them.
But, they are a wonderful device.
Josh
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bent_gate
Feb 12, 2007, 9:58 PM
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I disagree with everyone.
Learn to use the ATC to Lead Belay as well. You should be proficient in the use of both devices for Lead Belaying.
Then decide for yourself what is best for you.
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mtnfr34k
Feb 12, 2007, 10:14 PM
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I use a GriGri for single-pitch routes and typically of a harder grade that my partner is working and hanging on a fair bit.
For everything else I use an ATC-Guide.
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shimanilami
Feb 12, 2007, 10:30 PM
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I use a Gri-Gri for whenever I belay: gym, sport, multi-pitch, or aid; lead, simul-climb or follow. I don't buy the "better feel" argument. I have no problem feeding rope out.
Heavy for multi-pitch? Yes. But it's the safest thing I've used and I trust it 100%.
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sspssp
Feb 12, 2007, 10:53 PM
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drfelatio wrote: However, even better than the XP would be a Trango Cinch. Like the Gri-Gri, the Cinch is an autolocker, but they're lighter, smaller, and cheaper than a Gri-Gri and I think they work better too. Feeding the rope is ultra smooth and if your climber hang-dogs, the Cinch locks off real tight making it a piece of cake for you to hold them.
Yup.
And I've not tried the new "redesigned" version, but I assume they have solved the overly sensitive lowering.
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themadmilkman
Feb 13, 2007, 4:42 PM
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Other: Wild Country SRC.
The only time I use any other belay device is when the person climbing asks me to.
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reg
Feb 13, 2007, 5:07 PM
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sspssp wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: The grigri is a wonderful device but is not for the inexperienced. And which device would you want an inexerienced belayer belaying you with? 
my choice? - boot belay
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reg
Feb 13, 2007, 5:14 PM
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i think you should learn with atc or similar device - save the gri gri for later when your more familar with concepts and techniques around leading - a gri gri will load your top piece more then an atc. - it removes the properites of the dynamic belay. (edit: in some cases)
2nd edit: i would add that i use a glove when belaying a lead climber and on long raps - it's comfortable and could save a life or limb.
(This post was edited by reg on Feb 13, 2007, 6:14 PM)
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minn8325
Feb 13, 2007, 5:29 PM
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2 words "Triango Cinch" they do it all beautifuly
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dingus
Feb 13, 2007, 5:34 PM
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For sport? I prefer grigri.
DMT
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dynosore
Feb 13, 2007, 5:52 PM
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Unless it's a trad lead (which I'm just getting in to), I like to use or be belayed by the grigri. I've been dropped with an ATC, like many, it happens. Until humans are flawless, I like the idea of an autolocking device. One less variable to go wrong. I'll refuse a belay from someone dumb enough to drop me with a grigri.
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cracklover
Feb 13, 2007, 6:01 PM
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I've used both extensively.
For sport - gri gri or cinch are definitely the way to go.
GO
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