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wanlessrm
Feb 16, 2007, 9:15 PM
Post #26 of 39
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In response to Dewight Bishop free soloing the grand just a few weeks earlier I belayed Dewight on a red point of a 5.13 project he had put up a couple days earlier. This was after we put up about 5 new climbs and climbed them all. 5.13 at the end of the day is very impressive. But it all comes down to a 5.8 getting the best of him.
The first time I soloed I still tied into a rope but after bringing my second up ask why didn't put any gear in. I looked at him and said I don't know why I was just climbing and got to the top before I knew it. That was the start. If you sitting at home thinking about it your not ready. One day you'll just do it and afterwards you'll never tell anyone because then they'll tell you your stupid and don't do it again.
The fact is you know your stupid and you don't need people telling you something you already know.
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wonderwoman
Feb 16, 2007, 9:23 PM
Post #27 of 39
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artm wrote: Many many people were scarred that day.
I bet! I felt lucky that this guy did not fall. But I also resented the fact that I had been dragged into a situation where, even though I had never seen this guy before in my life, had something happened I would likely be the one holding his hand on the way to the ER (or worse) or calming down his mom in the waiting area. I totally wanted to run away in horror when I saw him huffing and puffing and flailing, but felt obligated to stay in case he did fall. I'm not good with blood and it's doubtful that I would have been able to help him had the situation taken a turn for the worse.
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artm
Feb 16, 2007, 9:36 PM
Post #28 of 39
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wonderwoman wrote: artm wrote: Many many people were scarred that day. I bet! I felt lucky that this guy did not fall. But I also resented the fact that I had been dragged into a situation where, even though I had never seen this guy before in my life, had something happened I would likely be the one holding his hand on the way to the ER (or worse) or calming down his mom in the waiting area. I totally wanted to run away in horror when I saw him huffing and puffing and flailing, but felt obligated to stay in case he did fall. I'm not good with blood and it's doubtful that I would have been able to help him had the situation taken a turn for the worse.
Amazingly the soloist who fell lived but at least six of my friends witnessed the fall, all of them changed by it and one of them will never climb again.
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amikros
Feb 16, 2007, 9:55 PM
Post #29 of 39
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maybe a 5.5 ?
No, but seriously...there's just too many what ifs...even if it is ridiculously easy, you never know...
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ecjohnson
Feb 16, 2007, 10:24 PM
Post #30 of 39
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wanlessrm wrote: In response to Dewight Bishop free soloing the grand just a few weeks earlier I belayed Dewight on a red point of a 5.13 project he had put up a couple days earlier. This was after we put up about 5 new climbs and climbed them all. 5.13 at the end of the day is very impressive. But it all comes down to a 5.8 getting the best of him. The first time I soloed I still tied into a rope but after bringing my second up ask why didn't put any gear in. I looked at him and said I don't know why I was just climbing and got to the top before I knew it. That was the start. If you sitting at home thinking about it your not ready. One day you'll just do it and afterwards you'll never tell anyone because then they'll tell you your stupid and don't do it again. The fact is you know your stupid and you don't need people telling you something you already know.
I had a very similar experience. It was on the Third Flatiron which, granted, isn't very hard. But we had gone up a few pitches, and then one pitch, I just started climbing, and didn't put in one piece the whole 180' pitch. When my second came up, she had this concerned look of wonder on her face, and asked me why I hadn't put any gear in. I just said I don't know. I was in the groove, it wasn't a conscious decision, but I was conscious of what was happening, and what could happen. I realize that it wasn't a whole climb, just one of 8 pitches, but a similar experience nonetheless.
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notapplicable
Feb 17, 2007, 12:43 AM
Post #31 of 39
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ecjohnson wrote: wanlessrm wrote: In response to Dewight Bishop free soloing the grand just a few weeks earlier I belayed Dewight on a red point of a 5.13 project he had put up a couple days earlier. This was after we put up about 5 new climbs and climbed them all. 5.13 at the end of the day is very impressive. But it all comes down to a 5.8 getting the best of him. The first time I soloed I still tied into a rope but after bringing my second up ask why didn't put any gear in. I looked at him and said I don't know why I was just climbing and got to the top before I knew it. That was the start. If you sitting at home thinking about it your not ready. One day you'll just do it and afterwards you'll never tell anyone because then they'll tell you your stupid and don't do it again. The fact is you know your stupid and you don't need people telling you something you already know. I had a very similar experience. It was on the Third Flatiron which, granted, isn't very hard. But we had gone up a few pitches, and then one pitch, I just started climbing, and didn't put in one piece the whole 180' pitch. When my second came up, she had this concerned look of wonder on her face, and asked me why I hadn't put any gear in. I just said I don't know. I was in the groove, it wasn't a conscious decision, but I was conscious of what was happening, and what could happen. I realize that it wasn't a whole climb, just one of 8 pitches, but a similar experience nonetheless.
Soloing has given me some of my favorite memories on the rock and I dont think people should be made to feel guilty or ashamend of going ropeless.
That being said I would like to echo some of the thoughts I've seem in this thread on not imposing the risks you choose to take on others. I don't know ecjohnson or wanlessrm but it does seem unfair and borderline wreckless to effectively solo a pitch of climbing (especialy hundreds of feet off the deck) while roped to another person. Now, I dont know your partners, the style in which you climb or if they could bring themselves to turn your line loose instead of allowing your 200 ft., fall factor 2 bomb to rip there anchor so I'm working off the little bit of info. in your posts. You both implied that your partner didnt have prior knowledge of your intentions and was at least a little suprised or concerned about what happened, if thats what happened your actions dont strike me as being in line with my understanding of what a "partnership" is.
Again I dont want to bash you too hard because I dont know you and I have run 200 ft. with only 3 or 4 pieces of gear which isn't ever a good idea. The difference is it was always a decision the both of us made to avoid a less favorable situation (darkness, rain, rockfall from climbers above, etc....) or because as a team or MO is to move quickly and lightly over easy terrain. Those type of decisions are ones that both members of a team should be in on if for no other reason than so your belayer can react appropriatly in a worst case cenario.
The risks you take as a team are just that (and if what you did was within the standard behavior of your partnership then ignore me) but you should never (knowingly) impose the risks you choose to assume on other people. That applies to all areas of life not just climbing.
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wanlessrm
Feb 17, 2007, 1:06 AM
Post #32 of 39
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notapplicable had some great points in his above post and I agree with all of them.
I never said I was climbing pitch 2 of a climb and pitch 1 would leave me on the ground with no factor 2 fall. I never said this was smart and my post should tell you how stupid I thought it was. Thats just how it happened. If you look I have never posted anything on free soloing or anything I soloed. If you solo do it for yourself and keep it to yourself.
P.s. Put a note on your car as to your routes for the day so people don't waste their time looking for you ass when you don't make it home at night.
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notapplicable
Feb 17, 2007, 1:43 AM
Post #33 of 39
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Yeah man, like I said I really didnt want to bash anybody because we all make bad decisions and for all I know you belayer was also your soloing buddy and couldnt have cared less.
I just thought it was important to point out that, although its inconsiderate to climb without protection near other people (which I have done and regret) its even more important to not blur the line between trad climbing and soloing while your actually roped to that other person (which I've done and dont defend as being smart, just the lesser of two evils).
You obviously didnt put your partner in danger so I apologies for being critical.
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kricir
Feb 17, 2007, 2:08 AM
Post #34 of 39
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Registered: Oct 15, 2005
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I'v done a little soloing, even some in eldo, and my advice is this…
1.DON’T FALL! THIS WILL RESULT IN DEATH!
2.Don’t make a habit of it. It is really fun, and you may be tempted to do it a lot, don’t.
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notapplicable
Feb 17, 2007, 2:16 AM
Post #35 of 39
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To the OP. Start on routes you know well, dont do anything over 5.7 for atleast thirty solo's, stay away things with well defined (especially hard to reverse) cruxes, if it feels sketchy it is sketchy by simple virtue of the fact that your sketching so back off, choose quantity (the taller the better) and quality over difficulty everytime and most importantly of all, if the thoughts "oh god, oh god, oh god" or "man that was stupid" cross your mind during a solo and you make it off the climb please stop for awhile to get back inline with the reason you started soloing because you pushed to hard.
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deadhorse
Feb 18, 2007, 9:23 AM
Post #37 of 39
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Registered: Jun 26, 2006
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soloing is an art-- despite the fact that so many people view it as simple stupidity it really has an artful feel to it. Afterall, it IS man & rock alone, mental games included.
If you know the route well, and you're not scared- do it. Or, if you don't know the route that well, but you don't care that much, do it. I'm not joking. Some people are in love with being around, but not everybody. If achieving this is more important than being around without it than get out there and make yourself.
Sorry if that's sounds pessimistic, it shouldn't. Sometimes we have to take drastic measures to find ourselves. I believe I could paraphrase Dan Osma's statement after his biggest jump in yosemite by saying 'What kind of life are we living these days that we have to throw ourselves off 1200 foot cliffs to know we're alive.' (My apologies if I messed up his original intent- I have the utmost respect for him)
The average person would say we're crazy for taking 30 foot whippers onto a #5 nut. The average climber would say you're crazy for soloing a route you don't know by heart. The only difference is context.
But, that said, take it all with a grain of salt, i've been drinking alot.
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alxg
Feb 19, 2007, 8:07 PM
Post #38 of 39
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Registered: Nov 28, 2006
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If you're going to solo do it. Don't ask for anyone's opinion if you should or not. It's a choice only you can make.
The ?'s only you can answer:
What are your skills?
Can you keep your head in the game when things get dicey and you don't have a rope or gear on you?
Do you know any self rescue techniques?
Do you KNOW none of the holds will break? (I hear Colorado has had a lot of freeze thaw going on hmmmm).
If you're soloing a 5.6 do you KNOW that a lot of climbers that have been climbing a lot longer and harder will say "shoot I'd rather climb a 5.12 any day than some 5.6 death choss"
Do you KNOW how many people will say "at least he was doing what he loved best"
Just do the polite thing and solo when there aren't people around.
btw, I'll bet the 3 little guys and the woman in the photo wished they hadn't witnessed it.
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tradrenn
Feb 20, 2007, 12:25 AM
Post #39 of 39
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Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
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As Lynn Hill said in her book:
"So much to loose, so little to gain"
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