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sofakingcool
Nov 17, 2004, 2:22 AM
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Hey guys
I am looking to buy my first set of quickdraws , and was wondering what you all thought of pairing the DMM Prowire , with the Superflys .. I looked at the stats , and it seemed like a nice lightweight combination .
Phill
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dynoguy
Nov 17, 2004, 2:56 AM
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will these be mostly for sport or trad?
My favorite sport draw is the dynotron from BD.
Check 'em out.
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bubba
Nov 17, 2004, 6:20 AM
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Whatever your company of choice is, make sure you get wire gates for the rope end.
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sofakingcool
Nov 17, 2004, 7:03 AM
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They will be for sport , I've not ventured into the trad world yet .. I'll check those out for sure . Also , what length runners should I get for them ? Should I get a variety ?
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phatcat
Nov 17, 2004, 7:25 AM
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if your not trading, just use dogbones, maybe a longer one or two.
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debaser655321
Nov 17, 2004, 7:28 AM
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For sport, get at least a dozen draws. I'd recommed at least 4 of them being long. I have 2 longer draws that I devote to the anchors, figuring they will get a bit more use if Top Roping occurs after the lead.
Also it's nice having the long draws at the top for the Red Point attempt, so you don't blow it all by the lack of 3 extra inches.
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andrewph
Nov 17, 2004, 10:23 AM
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In reply to: Whatever your company of choice is, make sure you get wire gates for the rope end.
May I ask why your so insistant upon this. I dont dissagree, infact I dont know enough to have an oppinion. why would you not use bent gates? is it a weight issue? is it a sport issue?
I lead trad with both bent gate and wire biners at the rope end and cant see a problem with it. Please enlighten me!!!
Cheers Andy
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nagatana
Nov 17, 2004, 11:36 AM
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Try searching next time.
Two basic reasons are weight and less gate flutter.
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justin
Nov 17, 2004, 11:58 AM
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You're likely to get a better deal if you buy 5 of the same kind in a set. I don't know what the sit your end is, but out in tea land we get 10% off if we belong to a club.
Wild Country do a set of 5 draws of varying lengths, by way of example, which come in about 10 - 15% cheaper, add to that a further 10% off and they start to look even tastier. I personally prefer, rope drag dependent, a locker or short draw on the first bolt. I then try to balance out the system as I go.
I'm no expert, but if I've only served to confuse the issue, PM me and I'll gladly answer any Qs- I've received a lot of help from everyone myself.
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sofakingcool
Nov 18, 2004, 3:53 AM
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Does anyone know where I can get some good deals on these carabiners ? Or at least a good business to deal with when ordering ..
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jakedatc
Nov 18, 2004, 5:15 PM
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GearExpress.com... hands down.. kickass people and service .. good deals too 10% off if you get 5 complete draws or more (10 biners)
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caughtinside
Nov 18, 2004, 5:26 PM
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This is one that really just comes down to personal preference. If you ask people 'what's a good quickdraw' you're going to get a million different answers.
What you should do:
play around with different biners, and see which ones you like clipping. Personally, I like wiregates, specifically BD hotwires. I messed around with some of those new WC heliums the other day, and thought they had a really stiff gate. Didn't like them so much.
You should also consider dogbone length. Out of my 16 draws, only 4 are longer, with 7" bones. I wish they were ALL long. They give you way more options to clip from, and they will keep you from feeling rope drag on most routes.
I wouldn't worry too much about weight. Quality carabiners aren't going to weigh that much more than those superlight wiregates. I'd think about staying away from the trango superflys, because the small radius will be a smaller edge, putting more force on one small area of your rope.
Also, I prefer regular gates on the bolt ends of my draws, but that's personal preference.
Just some opinions. You should definitely look at a lot of biners before you invest your money. And you can usually get a deal if you buy a package or in bulk.
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jdouble
Nov 18, 2004, 5:56 PM
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2 more cents.......
I use a Petzl straight gate for the bolt side (IMHO notchless is the way to go, no snags, easier to clean....) and a BD hotwire for the rope side. Wiregates seem to clip a lot easier for me, as the surface of the gate is flat and sort of holds the rope in place for a split second versus the rounded surface of a non wiregate that will not stabalize the rope in the same fashion. Also the wiregate won't wip open as stated in other posts.
I was all fired up to get some Heliums to replace the Hotwires, they have a hood over the notch making them effectively notchless. Then came the re-call, and seeing some past posts on stiff gates I decided to hold out until they get refined or another company produces this 'notchless' wiregate.
I understand concerns about cost, and you should look for deals, but these things will last you many years. Spend a little more to get what you want.
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slacklinejoe
Nov 19, 2004, 5:16 AM
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For your first rack, I'd certainly recommend at least a few longer draws. I find I wish all of my draws were 8" and that extra length makes them a little more practical if I ever use them to clip off trad gear (less stiff that short dog bones).
Wiregates or obviously lighter, less gate flutter and in many cases people find them easier to clip.
Cons, well your belayer usually won't hear the "click" when you clip. Beleive it or not that can be more of an issue if your not communicating when you've got clipped and not.
Overall of course it's personal preferance - personally I'm all for wiregates, but I also like the concept of notchless (keylock) biners for the bolt end. I've got some new wiregates for sale or keylocks for sale in the used gear/great deals forum if your interested.
If your just wanted the cheapest draws possible, search around for deals - I think gear express is running a special on dirt bag draws. Their completely functional although like many of the lowest end you may find yourself wanting to upgrade later.
Frankly though the idea of upgrading is one no matter what you do, you'll be thinking about. Even if you go top of the line this week, next year your rack will be considered "heavy" and outdated as things evolve.
My dirt bag draws I first got still clip just fine, I just go for my nice wiregates first when I've got the choice.
If your looking for store recommendations, about all of them will get you what you need just fine. Most of them carry the exact same gear so you can usually afford to be price concious. I've got good experiences with most of them.
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benpullin
Nov 19, 2004, 5:23 AM
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In reply to: I was all fired up to get some Heliums to replace the Hotwires, they have a hood over the notch making them effectively notchless. Then came the re-call, and seeing some past posts on stiff gates I decided to hold out until they get refined or another company produces this 'notchless' wiregate.
DMM Wirelock -- I love them. Light and super strong. I think they have the greatest open-gate strength of any biner and 24kN closed!
http://www.mgear.com/...DMM/m_626245_s04.jpg
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picklejuice
Mar 19, 2007, 6:56 PM
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I read through a few threads on quickdraws, the pros and cons... looking to get my first set for both sport and trad (well probably be a while before trad, dreaming big...). Great advice. Since threads are dated back a few years ago, does anyone else have any recommendations on draws that have recently come out? Thought I'd ask before I made this hefty purchase. Thanks, the Pickle
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redpoint73
Mar 19, 2007, 7:16 PM
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Not too much has changed, except BD has the Positron carabiner, which is a Petzl Spirit knockoff, at a slightly lower price (though gate action is not quite as smooth in my opinion). Close enough that Petzl took legal action.
BD also has the Dynotron, which is also keylock, but a bit fancier shape, and a bit specialized for sport draws. More expensive then the Positron, and about the same price as the Spirit.
Wild Country also has the Helium, which as super-light (while still being basically full sized) wiregates, with a nice notchless design. A nice choice for rope end, but I recommend against using wiregates on the bolt end. But one of the most expensive biners on the market at $11 a shot.
Very recently, some companies (such as BD) started using skinnier dogbones. My recommendation is to stick w. something beefy (I like the Petzl Express). Your dogbones can rub on the rock and abrade, and with a skinny dogbone, there's just not much there! Plus, I see no good reason to have skinny dogbones. The weight difference is insignificant. Skinny runners can save on bulk w. longer slings, but with dogbones, I don't see the point. Better to buy something that will last.
Those are the most prominent developments in draws in the last couple years, in my opinion.
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shimanilami
Mar 19, 2007, 7:20 PM
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IMO, a notchless nose for the bolt end 'biner is really nice and worth the price. Spirits, Positrons ... whichever. I haven't noticed much difference for the bolt end.
And IMO, if you go with wire-gates for the rope end, don't go with tiny 'biners. The BD nano's and oz's are light and all, but with my fat fingers, I have a hard time clipping them. I much prefer my Hotwires because they give me more room and space to grab and clip the rope through.
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caughtinside
Mar 19, 2007, 7:31 PM
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redpoint73 wrote: Very recently, some companies (such as BD) started using skinnier dogbones. My recommendation is to stick w. something beefy (I like the Petzl Express). Your dogbones can rub on the rock and abrade, and with a skinny dogbone, there's just not much there! Plus, I see no good reason to have skinny dogbones. The weight difference is insignificant. Skinny runners can save on bulk w. longer slings, but with dogbones, I don't see the point. Better to buy something that will last.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of these skinny dogbones either. I'd rather have a few more grams of sling material on my nylong jugs, er, I mean dogbones!
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kane_schutzman
Mar 19, 2007, 10:22 PM
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I would not be really worried about the skinny dogbone getting cut, but more so fumbling around with them trying to clip. The bitches just twist all different ways, and its ANNOYING. Idk, I definately like a wider draw though.
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caughtinside
Mar 19, 2007, 10:37 PM
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kane_schutzman wrote: I definately like a wider draw though.
Oh yeah? Well, how about 100 wider draws?
hahahaha
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tradrenn
Mar 20, 2007, 2:20 AM
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caughtinside wrote: kane_schutzman wrote: I definately like a wider draw though. Oh yeah? Well, how about 100 wider draws? hahahaha
That was funny
Poor Kane.
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gb3985
Mar 20, 2007, 2:33 AM
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I have a set of OP Dirtbags and I like them,yes they are heavier than some others out there but here a route dosen't take more than 8 .They are lots cheaper than the big names............... $.02
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Carnage
Mar 28, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Ive noticed alot of people talking about having a few longer draws, but everyone just says longer and shorter.... How long are the "long" draws and how long are the shorter ones.
From what ive gathered its not a bad idea to have a few 24" runners doubled/tripled up but the majority of your set would be in the 8" range. Am i correct in this deduction?
Forgive me if i miss used some jargon, im new
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anykineclimb
Mar 28, 2007, 3:45 AM
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long draws are mor in the 8"+ range. most draws are about 4-6"
personally, I prefer longer draws.
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