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coastal_climber
Mar 30, 2007, 5:21 PM
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Is it safe to sew your own aiders? I am interested in aid climbing, and will be practicing in the gym before I go out and would like to save the cost for more important gear. Is it safe to sew your own aiders?
>Cam
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summerprophet
Mar 30, 2007, 5:30 PM
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Do you have an industrial sewing machine capable of doing bar tacks?
Hint: If your sewing machine doesn't have an oil reservior under it then likely not.
If you are trying to save a few bucks, you can make your own aiders, but knot them, do not sew them. and after using them a few times you will realize aiders are worth their high cost.
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vegastradguy
Mar 30, 2007, 5:33 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: Is it safe to sew your own aiders? I am interested in aid climbing, and will be practicing in the gym before I go out and would like to save the cost for more important gear. Is it safe to sew your own aiders? >Cam
if your gym is like most gyms, a couple of 24" slings girth hitched together will suffice for aiders- bolts just arent that far apart in gyms. you may have to use the holds on the walls for feet once in a while, but you'll get the idea.
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coastal_climber
Mar 30, 2007, 5:58 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: coastal_climber wrote: Is it safe to sew your own aiders? I am interested in aid climbing, and will be practicing in the gym before I go out and would like to save the cost for more important gear. Is it safe to sew your own aiders? >Cam if your gym is like most gyms, a couple of 24" slings girth hitched together will suffice for aiders- bolts just arent that far apart in gyms. you may have to use the holds on the walls for feet once in a while, but you'll get the idea.
We have aid routes set up to do aid/rope work. Does anyone have the instructions for tying aiders?
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moof
Mar 30, 2007, 6:16 PM
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There was a tech tip in climbing.cant a while ago about tied daisies and aiders, or get freedom of the hills, they have instructions. They suck but work, probably your best cave solution.
Back the original question, can you sew them at home?
1. Yes. They are not life support gear.
2. Why? $50 for a all the sewing in a pair is a steal!
If you sew them at home, here are some things to consider:
1. Don't use your wife's favorite machine, you're going to abuse whatever you use, so use an ebay special, or a yard sale clunker.
2. Get good thread. #69 nylon bonded thread, or #69 bonded polyester thread works in mose home machines.
3. You can make OK bartacks using zig zagging, but it is often more work than it's worth and often results in snags and broken needles due to the close packing.
4. Good sewn joints can be made making a whole bunche of stitches running paralell and along the length of the webbing. They tend to embed down into the webbing and abrade very little. At either end run a half dozen stitches over the end of your pattern across the webbing.
5. #69 thread is about 10 lbs strong, and each resulting stitch is about 20 lbs strong. Put in several hundred stitches per joint and you'll be close to the webbign strength.
6. Design your pattern to sew through no more than 2 layers of webbing at a time. Most machines simply won't go through 3 layers unless it is truly burly.
7. Bar tacks are over rated. They are NOT the strongest possible joint. They are very fast, and consistent for a manufacturer to use. Making a joint as I described can be stronger, but will literally take 10 or more minutes to make if you know what you are doing, while a few bartacks will take about 15 seconds for a trained person to do, probably less.
8. Industrial machines are NICE. If you want to make some home gear, the cheap machines are just not worth the additional hassles they result in.
(This post was edited by moof on Mar 30, 2007, 6:19 PM)
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caughtinside
Mar 30, 2007, 6:26 PM
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some good replies so far.
when I started my practice aiding on short stuff, I put overhand knots into a couple double length slings to make ghetto aiders. they sucked, but they worked.
I ended up buying a pair of used aiders on ebay for like $18. a little worn, but I don't use them all that often and they aren't in the safety chain. they're burly nylon anyway, I'm not concerned about breakage.
i've seen homemade knotted ones. They work, but I bet they use a lot of webbing, and a lot of time and effort to make right.
i'd recommend getting a used pair. good luck.
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dobson
Mar 30, 2007, 7:13 PM
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I tied some (as seen in FOTH) for practice this winter, but I'm now using commercial ones. Comparing the 3-aider technique I was using with the homemade ones, to my new 2-pair commercial setup; I'm not sure why I ever made my own. Sure aiders are expensive, but they stay open better, and are more durable. You don't want to be on a freaky hook move trying to get your foot in your floppy homemade aiders. In short, my tied aiders may never agian see the light of day.
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shimanilami
Mar 30, 2007, 7:51 PM
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My mother-in-law sewed up harnesses, aiders, daisies ... you name it ... for a lot of the guys who climbed in the Valley in the 70's. Her stuff worked just fine. Of course, there were no Black Diamond's or Petzl's back then, so they didn't have any other options. She did say that she used the sewing machine she used to make belts, shoes, and things, and that she used the thickest thread available, but she said it was actually pretty simple to do. (How weird is it to throw legendary names out to your mother-in-law and to have her say, "Oh I remember that young man. He was very sweet ..."?!?!)
But seriously, man, just bite the bullet and buy some. Or better yet, borrow some. The ones you make may work, but they will not work well. And aid is about making things easier on yourself, not harder.
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shutupandclimb
Mar 30, 2007, 8:18 PM
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If you want to make cheap aiders, tie webbing as others have suggested. You also need something to stiffen the steps or they'll hurt your feet ... I used flexible plastic tubing slid over the webbing (which keeps the step open as well). They work great for small amounts of aiding. For anything more go buy some aiders, they will be well worth the investment.
Dave
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nudge_nudge
Mar 30, 2007, 8:54 PM
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If you want to be super classy you can knot yerself some ladders. Actually I have yet to make a second one... I use 2 regular tied ones and this...
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namascar
Apr 6, 2007, 4:32 AM
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Way to go! nudge_nudge. These are the best!
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charlet_poser
Apr 6, 2007, 6:08 AM
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my buddy made some and a few placements up they ripped. he nearly shit himself. good luck.
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