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Buurin
Apr 4, 2007, 7:31 PM
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At one of the town parks the city erected a concrete climbing structure for lead climbing with single bolt anchors up top. These anchors are steel 'D' bolts (like half a ring)
Since using a single anchor is a no-no I'm not familiar with how to safely use such a setup.
In the past I have simply attached two lockers directly to the bolts, but its a tight fit and I just dont like it.
Recently I decided I want to try something new and am wondering if its safe... I've attached a pic of my new setup. Ultimately I run a short stitched sling through the bolt and attach the two lockers to the two loops created by running the sling through the bolt.
This setup would be used for 1) lowering me off my lead and 2) my follower top roping/cleaning the route.
Any other ideas.. Some people told me they girth hitch a sling to the bolt but I think they just used that setup for lowering and not top roping.
(This post was edited by Buurin on Apr 4, 2007, 8:39 PM)
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legal.jpg
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dbrayack
Apr 4, 2007, 7:37 PM
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Heck, I'd just thread the rope through the one anchor point.
Therfore, you eliminate the need for redudancy.
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climbinginchico
Apr 4, 2007, 7:39 PM
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You botched the attachment/pics.
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summerprophet
Apr 4, 2007, 7:40 PM
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Firstly - No picture to speak of.
Secondly, I am assuming that the ring anchors at the top of the climbs are far larger than standard climbing gear. If this is the case, and you can trust the single point implicitly, I would run TWO slings through the ring and clip all four created loops with two opposite and opposed carabiners.
Unless these rings are so obviously bomber, I would also look for a backup to the ring, such as a tree or boulder.
As a side note, I am quite surprised that a city would create a climbing wall for leading, there is a whole mess of legal issues waiting to happen here. I woudl get your climbing in before someone shuts it down.
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Buurin
Apr 4, 2007, 7:43 PM
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http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=marymoor%20climbing&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
Bunch of pics of the place..
Let me try to upload again...
The bolts are not 'far' larger. MAYBE slightly larger.
I like the two sling idea... assuming the whole run-a-sling-through concept is okay to do.
There is no backup in sight... as you can see from the above link. Maybe I can plant a tree up top and wait.
(This post was edited by Buurin on Apr 4, 2007, 7:47 PM)
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rocknice2
Apr 4, 2007, 7:52 PM
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The bolts are there for leading not top-roping. Use the top bolt to rap only not even lowering as this wears the bolt. Top roping will promot loitering.
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reg
Apr 4, 2007, 7:56 PM
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http://images.google.com/...&sa=N&tab=wi
i must be missing something cause i saw a TR'r so now i'm confused. in any event a large, well placed, long stainless eye bolt will hold several yugo cars. if it was set correctly in the concrete then ur good to go.
(This post was edited by reg on Apr 4, 2007, 8:03 PM)
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zeke_sf
Apr 4, 2007, 8:29 PM
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Nobody else has said it, so: That's fuckin' rad your city made a public climbing area!
That's all.
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shockabuku
Apr 4, 2007, 8:31 PM
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I'd be hesitant to TR on a single bolt but maybe that's just me. Hell, I'd check it good before rapping down off of it.
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greenketch
Apr 4, 2007, 10:30 PM
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What rocknice said. Those bolts are intendedn for rap only. The gear is bigger than climbing stuff but you should still treat it like a rap chain. Lead the route and set up a TR wiht some biners. When you are done the last guy up climbs the route, clips in, resets the rope for a rap direct throught the eye, raps off, then pulls the rope.
When you are up there just look at the ring for wear caused by TR'ing direct befor eyou use it.
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Buurin
Apr 4, 2007, 11:28 PM
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I understand not to top rope off the ring which is why I started the post.
My question was: Is using the setup I depicted in the above diagram okay?
THanks
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jpartridge78
Apr 4, 2007, 11:45 PM
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No; the sling should be doubled.
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stagg54
Apr 4, 2007, 11:51 PM
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Buurin wrote: I understand not to top rope off the ring which is why I started the post. My question was: Is using the setup I depicted in the above diagram okay? THanks
Sticking a sling through a bolt does nothing to make it more redundant. You're just adding another potential point of failure. Why not just 2 lockers directly through the bolt? provided you can fit 2 through it.
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Buurin
Apr 4, 2007, 11:55 PM
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Like I said in my first post... I have been using 2 lockers directly in the bolt.
Its a very tight fit to the point that the movement of the biners is severvely restricted... This just strikes me as unsafe (i.e. so much friction/contact between the two biners and the rock that they can unscrew themsevles or bind up...)
Its also so tight that removing them is even difficult, kind of have to jerk the first one out
Thanks for the suggestions.
(This post was edited by Buurin on Apr 4, 2007, 11:57 PM)
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deschamps1000
Apr 4, 2007, 11:59 PM
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I would rather rely on a single locking biner than a single sling.
What you should really do is talk to whoever manages that park. Though the one anchor may be fully bombproof, it creates bad behaviors in climbers who may learn there and then take their knowledge outside.
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Buurin
Apr 5, 2007, 12:10 AM
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I wish they'd change it.
Whats even more of an issue is that there are semi-permanent oval biners on some of the bolts (the kind with a 'hex bolt' that you screw shut with a wrench). These biners are weathered (not rusted but discolored -- brown) and I would not use them for anything.
They take up the space for my 2nd biner... therefore on some routes I have to simply attach my 1 locker and use that OR I could use the doubled up slings and 2 lockers
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coastal_climber
Apr 5, 2007, 3:00 AM
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Instead of wasting your time posting on here, grab a drill and bolt that sucker!
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greenketch
Apr 5, 2007, 3:12 AM
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Those "biners" are quicklinks. As long as there is no wear from the ropes riding throught them they also are plenty strong. The brown color does not affect the strength.
As this rock has been up for several years and there are quite a few climbers that are on it. I would also possibly suggest getting ahold of some of the locals. There are several skilled climbers that can show you the way to rig it and demonstrate some skills.
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madrasrock
Apr 5, 2007, 4:17 AM
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All the anchor's at Marymoor Park are 1/2" Stainless steel most likely 8"- 10" on to concrete, you can hook on to any on them. as a single point.
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rockguide
Apr 5, 2007, 4:39 AM
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jpartridge78 wrote: No; the sling should be doubled.
Agreed. Double sling if you want to top rope and ensure that the single point is good enough. If the city built a climbing park, they should have some documentation from the installation team about how it is intended to be used.
Use as intended.
And don't top rope running the rope through the ring. If it is a glue in, wearing it thin is a bad idea as it may be difficult to replace.
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truello
Apr 5, 2007, 2:59 PM
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I agree that the bolt is strong enough to hold anything you're going to throw at it. However, I like the idea of using a sling + your biners because it eliminates bolt wear. My only suggestion is add an overhand knot to your sling, making it redundant (and no need for another sling).
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bandycoot
Apr 5, 2007, 3:28 PM
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Man, if it were me I'd do something like put redundant webbing and carabiners on the thing with a laminated tag that says something about leaving it there for everyone and the date it was installed. If nothing else, it would be an interesting social experiment to see how long it lasts. I have tons of carabiners that I don't care about, though. That is, of course, if there really is no "good" solution that is obvious or that the locals have figured out.
Josh
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jltbapg
Apr 7, 2007, 6:21 PM
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I like the webbing idea mostly to decrease wear on the steel ring...this town prob doesn't have resources to be replacing bolts
How long has that been there...i want a public climbing area in my town
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catbird_seat
Apr 9, 2007, 6:54 AM
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I've climbed extensively at Marymoor Park.
The anchors at the tops of all the routes have triangular-shaped quick links. Some of these are starting to show signs of wear as a result of people top roping through them. If I can find a source for similar hardware, I'll replace them, as it is easier than trying to find the "authority" if there is one.
I usually just put two quick draws, opposed, onto the quick link for top roping. It's quick and easy. If I felt that I couldn't trust the quick link, I would then use two sewn slings and one or two locking carabiners as described above.
Note you cannot put two carabiners through the eye of the bolt itself without binding.
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