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Belayer/Climber weight ratio
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sketchster_81


May 19, 2007, 9:36 PM
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Belayer/Climber weight ratio
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Hi,

My friend and I just picked up rock climbing, however we have a vast weight difference. 100lbs difference.

Is it reasonable to assume with the assistance of a grigri and proper instruction she'll be able to successfully belay me, being 100 lbs heavier? Unanchored of course - gym climbing.

I've tried to find info on this, does anyone have any references on climber/belay weight ratios?


Reaganchung


May 19, 2007, 9:48 PM
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if youre top roping in the gym you will be fine. If youre taking a lead fall she will probably get lifted off the ground a little but nothing serious. Its not like she will get shot up to the top of the climb. In a standard toprope set up the belayer will feel 60% of the force due to friction. Using a grigri will lift her off the ground even more because it gives a static belay.


thedejongs


May 19, 2007, 9:48 PM
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Search the existing threads. If you use the words "belay" and "weigh," I have no doubt you'll find what you need (and oh so much moreShocked). Cheers.
BTW, most gyms provide floor anchors, so this should be a non-issue.


macblaze


May 19, 2007, 9:54 PM
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It's fine...hell its even fun. When my son was younger there was at least 100 lb difference and taking a whipper would drag him up to the first anchor... A total hoot. He had an ATC XP for added assurance, but in retrospect I think a regular ATC would of been fine...


sketchster_81


May 19, 2007, 9:57 PM
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Reaganchung wrote:
if youre top roping in the gym you will be fine. If youre taking a lead fall she will probably get lifted off the ground a little but nothing serious. Its not like she will get shot up to the top of the climb. In a standard toprope set up the belayer will feel 60% of the force due to friction. Using a grigri will lift her off the ground even more because it gives a static belay.

Awesome, thanks man!

We're just TR'ing.


sketchster_81


May 19, 2007, 9:58 PM
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thedejongs wrote:
Search the existing threads. If you use the words "belay" and "weigh," I have no doubt you'll find what you need (and oh so much moreShocked). Cheers.
BTW, most gyms provide floor anchors, so this should be a non-issue.

cool, will do.

Unfortunately our gym doesn't have anchors (hence my unanchored comment), however I have enough info now.

Thanks.


sketchster_81


May 19, 2007, 9:59 PM
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macblaze wrote:
It's fine...hell its even fun. When my son was younger there was at least 100 lb difference and taking a whipper would drag him up to the first anchor... A total hoot. He had an ATC XP for added assurance, but in retrospect I think a regular ATC would of been fine...

Using a grigri, how exactly does said belayer lower back to the ground? lol


airdo


May 19, 2007, 10:32 PM
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Having your belayer pulled upward and off balance is not the best, especially for an upcoming and coming novice climber. IMO don't foucus so much on the hundred pounds but rather the weight ratio between climber and belayer. Basic somebody can belay a climber 1.5 times their weight in good conditions. Gyms often offer ideal conditions for belay stance and position. If you never leave the gym then this is all you need to know.

When you start climbing outside you are inevitably going to encounter less than ideal belay positions and you will need to start considering a ground/belay anchors when ratio exceed 1.2 or so (this is not an exact science - or actually it is but I'm not going there).

For an example if my wife weighs 130 lbs. and I weigh 190 lbs then our weight ratio = 130/190 = 1.46 when I am climbing. She is a good belayer and can hold me without to much additional effort in good top roping scenarios. Leading is different so we take extra precautions when conditions are less than ideal (e.g. gri-gri, ground anchor - but not too tight to keep some elasticity in the belay system)


coastal_climber


May 20, 2007, 12:31 AM
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Does using a Gri Gri make you feel safer? Even though it's auto locking, user error is still possible. Just anchor into the ground before belaying your partner, even without being anchored in, getting pulled up isn't that big of an issue. Providing a dynamic belay is better on the system.

>Cam


sketchster_81


May 20, 2007, 7:12 AM
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coastal_climber wrote:
Does using a Gri Gri make you feel safer? Even though it's auto locking, user error is still possible. Just anchor into the ground before belaying your partner, even without being anchored in, getting pulled up isn't that big of an issue. Providing a dynamic belay is better on the system.

>Cam

Using a grigri is the only way I have climbed. Providing the belayer doesn't yank on the release, what other "user error" do we have to worry about?

Again, anchors are not available in our gym.


(This post was edited by sketchster_81 on May 20, 2007, 7:14 AM)


sketchster_81


May 20, 2007, 7:13 AM
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airdo wrote:
Having your belayer pulled upward and off balance is not the best, especially for an upcoming and coming novice climber. IMO don't foucus so much on the hundred pounds but rather the weight ratio between climber and belayer. Basic somebody can belay a climber 1.5 times their weight in good conditions. Gyms often offer ideal conditions for belay stance and position. If you never leave the gym then this is all you need to know.

When you start climbing outside you are inevitably going to encounter less than ideal belay positions and you will need to start considering a ground/belay anchors when ratio exceed 1.2 or so (this is not an exact science - or actually it is but I'm not going there).

For an example if my wife weighs 130 lbs. and I weigh 190 lbs then our weight ratio = 130/190 = 1.46 when I am climbing. She is a good belayer and can hold me without to much additional effort in good top roping scenarios. Leading is different so we take extra precautions when conditions are less than ideal (e.g. gri-gri, ground anchor - but not too tight to keep some elasticity in the belay system)

Thanks for this, useful information.

Our weight ratio is 1.62... i suspect it will be a little difficult at first.


pro_alien


May 20, 2007, 8:02 AM
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sketchster_81 wrote:
Using a grigri, how exactly does said belayer lower back to the ground? lol

Single rope rappel, anchored by the heavy climber...


airdo


May 20, 2007, 3:20 PM
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Sketchster,
I am surprised that your local climbing gym doesn't have ground anchors. I am not a gym climber but I always thought that most gyms could accommodate folks in need of a ground anchor. Have you asked? What climbing gym? Either way with a ratio like 1.6 you are always going to be dealing with anchoring the lighter belayer. Good luck and climb smart! Don't let the knuckle heads in these forums sway your common sense.
Cheers


sketchster_81


May 20, 2007, 9:47 PM
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airdo wrote:
Sketchster,
I am surprised that your local climbing gym doesn't have ground anchors. I am not a gym climber but I always thought that most gyms could accommodate folks in need of a ground anchor. Have you asked? What climbing gym? Either way with a ratio like 1.6 you are always going to be dealing with anchoring the lighter belayer. Good luck and climb smart! Don't let the knuckle heads in these forums sway your common sense.
Cheers

Yea, they definitely do not have anchors. The place is called Joe Rockheads, in Toronto.

My wife took a lesson and their recommendation was to twist the rope twice at the top. The advised that this is bad for the rope, but would not compromise safety, and allowed my petite wife to belay me just fine. She even caught a fall!


crewdude


May 22, 2007, 5:21 AM
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sketchster_81 wrote:
airdo wrote:
Sketchster,
I am surprised that your local climbing gym doesn't have ground anchors. I am not a gym climber but I always thought that most gyms could accommodate folks in need of a ground anchor. Have you asked? What climbing gym? Either way with a ratio like 1.6 you are always going to be dealing with anchoring the lighter belayer. Good luck and climb smart! Don't let the knuckle heads in these forums sway your common sense.
Cheers

Yea, they definitely do not have anchors. The place is called Joe Rockheads, in Toronto.

My wife took a lesson and their recommendation was to twist the rope twice at the top. The advised that this is bad for the rope, but would not compromise safety, and allowed my petite wife to belay me just fine. She even caught a fall!

It all depends on the system... if they have toprope tubes, which is what it sounds like with the wrap it twice, then weight ratio won't matter much because friction takes a lot of the load... my 150-160lb friends belay me at 200lbs fine... most I've fallen is like 1 foot...

But if they have just biners or some other non-friction device on the top, then it does matter, although I've never seen someone without toprope tubes that didn't have anchors, you have to at that point...


king_rat


May 22, 2007, 12:45 PM
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If there are no floor anchors, your wife will probably be lifted off the floor in the event of you falling, just make sure she does not stand to far back when belaying otherwise she will get dragged forward and potentially slammed into the wall.Pirate


Salix


May 22, 2007, 5:41 PM
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And if therre is a roof--make sure to wear a helmet! I've been pulled up and knocked on me noggin!


alwaysclimbing07


May 22, 2007, 6:09 PM
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im right at 125lbs, and my climbing partner is 75 lbs more than i am, and i never have trouble belaying him on lead or tr inside or out, you just have to expect being pulled off the ground, just because thats what happens. as for problems that can happen with a gri gri, if someone feeds the rope through a gri gri the wrong way then it can cause some problems.


sketchster_81


May 23, 2007, 3:23 AM
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Salix wrote:
And if therre is a roof--make sure to wear a helmet! I've been pulled up and knocked on me noggin!

Wow, that is and isn't funny.

Some tricks we learned are:

- Stand directly under the TR anchor. This minimizes potential movement... nothing like being lifted off the ground and smacking into the wall :P
- stay low to the ground. You can belay on a knee safely, this lowers your center of gravity.
- put one leg on the wall, this gives you a little leverage and shift your weight to the rear leg.
- put your left shoulder on the wall. This is especially helpful when lowering your partner.


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