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JerZ
Jun 25, 2007, 10:42 PM
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My friends took me out climbing for my 3rd time today but we had to belay from in front of a ledge. I'm still trying to get the hang of it so they told me to use a sling and tie into the the tree behind me so I wouldn't be as nervous about the ledge. I figured my chalkbag loop wasn't designed to hold much since it's basically just plastic, so I used the same loop for the ATC. Well, I had the sling going to the tree behind me and when my friend took a little fall it crushed my manhood. My friends just laughed and wouldn't tell me a better way to do it, I tried standing off to the side of the rope and the sling, but that was just really uncomfortable. Is there a way to tie into something behind you and not have to stand over the sling so I can make sure I can have children later?
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majid_sabet
Jun 25, 2007, 11:08 PM
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[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Shot
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randomtask
Jun 25, 2007, 11:09 PM
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Just don't put it between your legs????
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rocknice2
Jun 25, 2007, 11:28 PM
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JerZ wrote: My friends took me out climbing for my 3rd time today but we had to belay from in front of a ledge. I'm still trying to get the hang of it so they told me to use a sling and tie into the the tree behind me so I wouldn't be as nervous about the ledge. I figured my chalkbag loop wasn't designed to hold much since it's basically just plastic, so I used the same loop for the ATC. Well, I had the sling going to the tree behind me and when my friend took a little fall it crushed my manhood. My friends just laughed and wouldn't tell me a better way to do it, I tried standing off to the side of the rope and the sling, but that was just really uncomfortable. Is there a way to tie into something behind you and not have to stand over the sling so I can make sure I can have children later?
It's best to face the anchor. If you must face away from the anchor and you really don't want the sling over your hip then loop a sling behind you through the whole waist belt. Then belay as you would off the belay loop.
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wmfork
Jun 25, 2007, 11:47 PM
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Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor.
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majid_sabet
Jun 25, 2007, 11:49 PM
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wmfork wrote: Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor.
100% agree
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bent_gate
Jun 26, 2007, 12:04 AM
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The short answer is to stand to the side so the sling won't be in between your legs in that type of situation.
Whenever you anchor, you first need to evaluate the direction of pull that will happen if the climber falls. Sometimes if you try to sling the anchor point down low (like on a tree) and it is not too long, then when a pull comes, the sling won't come all the way up to where you are straddling it like a tight rope between the legs.
So test it ahead of time, and if in doubt, stand to the side. If you belay right handed, it will be easier to hold the fall if you are standing to the left of the anchor sling, than on the right side. (Picture the belay device pulling to your left side, and your brake hand pulling across the right side of your body). The trade-off is that it can make rope management (stacking, or feeding out rope) a little more complicated because the anchor sling will be hovering in the air on your right side as well. But belay safety is more important.
If you are right handed, and you stand on the right side of the sling anchor, realize that when the climber falls, the belay device will be pulled out to your right side. Your brake hand will have a more difficult time of getting the rope into a full breaking position. If you brake the rope to your right side and around your back, it won't be catching much at all on a tube style device. So you have to make sure that you are pulling down more than you are pulling around your body. And it depends on your belay device, a gri gri won't experience this problem to a significant degree. Rope management is easier in this position because there is nothing on your right to get in the way of rope stacking/feeding. But it is often not worth the risk of loss of potential belay friction on many types of belay devices.
There are many situations where you would decide to belay off the anchor, but since this is in the Beginner’s Forum, I am assuming you are not going to immediately be in those situation.
So you should plan for all of these things when setting up your anchor sling, and the subsequent belay. It's a lot to think about, but your nuts will thank you!
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nextclimb
Jun 26, 2007, 12:32 AM
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Sounds like you need new friends. Particularly if they are letting you guess about belay anchors and techniques. You guessed right about not anchoring to a gear loop. Were you redundant and equalized? Do you know what that is? Get some experinced advise and read as many books on climbing and anchors as you can. Its a great sport when done right.
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curt
Jun 26, 2007, 1:35 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: wmfork wrote: Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor. 100% agree
100% wrong. You should secure yourself to the anchor with the rope--and then belay off your belay loop, not directly off the anchor.
Curt
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 26, 2007, 3:25 AM
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curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: wmfork wrote: Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor. 100% agree 100% wrong. You should secure yourself to the anchor with the rope--and then belay off your belay loop, not directly off the anchor. Curt
That's old school thinking Curt, but both of you are wrong. THere is no "always" or "100%" in climbing.
Josh
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veganclimber
Jun 26, 2007, 3:27 AM
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 26, 2007, 3:28 AM
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rocknice2 wrote: It's best to face the anchor. If you must face away from the anchor and you really don't want the sling over your hip then loop a sling behind you through the whole waist belt. Then belay as you would off the belay loop.
This is WRONG.
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curt
Jun 26, 2007, 3:34 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: wmfork wrote: Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor. 100% agree 100% wrong. You should secure yourself to the anchor with the rope--and then belay off your belay loop, not directly off the anchor. Curt That's old school thinking Curt, but both of you are wrong. THere is no "always" or "100%" in climbing. Josh
OK. You're 100% right.
Curt
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 26, 2007, 3:45 AM
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veganclimber wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: wmfork wrote: Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor. 100% agree 100% wrong. You should secure yourself to the anchor with the rope--and then belay off your belay loop, not directly off the anchor. Curt Is this always true? If you use a redirected belay to bring up the second you double the force on the anchor but your body can take some of the energy of the fall. If you belay directly off the anchor, the anchor has to take it all. I have never been able to find a clear answer as to which is worse. I use an ATC so I usually use the redirected belay but I have always wondered about this.
Curt was not talking about redirecting throught the anchor. He was staing an old school belief that the anchor is only a back up and you should belay directly off your harness in a good position to catch a fall. The truth is that they are all viable ways to belay in different situations. SOmetimes it's just preference. But, remember this...How you belay is irrelevent if you do not bulid a solid anchor. Learning how to place proper gear is paramount to you surviving. The rest you will figure out in time.
Josh
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caughtinside
Jun 26, 2007, 3:48 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: [ URL= http:// imageshack. us][IMG] http://img504. imageshack. us/img504/2504/untitledhf9.png[/IMG] Shot
LOL!!!!
Majid, your best one yet! Keep it up dude!
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wmfork
Jun 26, 2007, 3:52 AM
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veganclimber wrote: If you use a redirected belay to bring up the second...
Practically, you should never have to worry about a < factor 1 fall tearing up an anchor (which would be if you decided not to take up any slack and the second falls while reaching for the anchor). At any rate, if you are close enough to the anchor, you'd almost certainly exert less force belaying off of it (i.e. there's not much extra rope for you to soften a fall).
Dynamic lead belay is all good and everything, but sometimes not having your belayer sent through the air is also a peace of mind (less likely the belayer would lose control). That being said, I've never lead belayed off the anchor on a multi-pitch, mostly because my partners all weigh close enough to me.
Oh yeah, being pinched between the front and back of your harness can really suck (i.e. don't anchor yourself off on the back).
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rocknice2
Jun 26, 2007, 4:24 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: rocknice2 wrote: It's best to face the anchor. If you must face away from the anchor and you really don't want the sling over your hip then loop a sling behind you through the whole waist belt. Then belay as you would off the belay loop. This is WRONG.
But then I would just belay directly off the anchor.
Next time offer something other than your critique shoveled out like a parking violation by a RC.com metermaid
blueeyedclimber wrote: THere is no "always" or "100%" in climbing. Josh |
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Banks
Jun 26, 2007, 5:56 AM
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veganclimber wrote: curt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: wmfork wrote: Most of the times if you must be anchored while belaying, you might as well belay off of the anchor. 100% agree 100% wrong. You should secure yourself to the anchor with the rope--and then belay off your belay loop, not directly off the anchor. Curt Is this always true? If you use a redirected belay to bring up the second you double the force on the anchor but your body can take some of the energy of the fall. If you belay directly off the anchor, the anchor has to take it all. I have never been able to find a clear answer as to which is worse. I use an ATC so I usually use the redirected belay but I have always wondered about this. |
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majid_sabet
Jun 26, 2007, 6:21 AM
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Which is better, direct link to your belay loop or belay via another seperate anchor?
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Shot at 2007-06-25
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Banks
Jun 26, 2007, 6:32 AM
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Per usual, you missed the point in favor of bad diagrams.
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irregularpanda
Jun 26, 2007, 7:14 AM
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jesus christ
1- read a book
2- after reading, buy a reverso
3- if not, belay with the rope THROUGH the anchor, and then down to your friends.
4- read a book
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JerZ
Jun 26, 2007, 2:59 PM
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Actually, It's more like this:
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fitzontherocks
Jun 26, 2007, 3:35 PM
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JerZ, could it be as simple as just using two slings instead of one, AND not straddling the sling/s? That might give you enough slack not to damage the boys. And in a situation like your last drawing, I've seen a guy belay off the tree. He wasn't wearing a harness, so he wrapped a sling or two around a big honking tree, hooked the ATC in, and belayed as normal. He HAD to stand off to the side a little, so there was no way he was going to rack his nuts as you did.
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cantbuymefriends
Jun 26, 2007, 3:37 PM
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JerZ wrote: Actually, It's more like this: [image] http://www.seethisitem.com/advertisement/5502/200706260016651-16695.jpg[/image]
Second, If you use your right hand as your main brake hand, the sling from the belay loop should go around your left hip to the anchor, so if it comes tight it doesn't interfere with your brake hand.
Edit: Of course there's the option to belay directly off the anchor, especially if you're one harness short in your climbing party. For my part, however, I find it easier to keep control over my (ATC) braking device if it's connected to my harness and not flopping around in the end of a sling. You can of course belay directly off the anchor and clip the whole bundle to your belay loop, but be carful to avoid cross-loading the biner(s) then...
(This post was edited by cantbuymefriends on Jun 26, 2007, 3:44 PM)
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