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trundlebum
Sep 16, 2007, 9:58 PM
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The previous (chronologically) posted thread in the trad category asks about helping an inured and disabled second in a two man party. Various methods of reaching and then lowering the victim were discussed.
Member "altelis" had some very sound advice and suggested a practise scenario which in turn brought up the question of reaching and helping an injured leader.
I would love to hear what people have to say/suggest "helping an injured leader".
Because scenarios could vary widely and each dictating a completed different solution, I will paint the scenario:
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You and your partner are on the second pitch of a very sheer, near or at vertical wall. You have one rope as you expect to breeze up this multi pitch climb rather uneventfully. Your partner is leading and at about 60 feet of rope out, takes a 20 foot fall. He is unconscience due to a head injury but it does not look critical.
As I mentioned you have only the lead rope and your partner has not lead past the halfway point.
what do you do?
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gunkiemike
Sep 16, 2007, 10:58 PM
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Still not enough information to answer.
How far above the ground are you? (maybe you still have enough rope to lower him to the ground) Can he be lowered back to the belay (or a reachable ledge)? Or is he off too far to the side? How solid is the top piece of gear that he's hanging from and how much other gear is on the pitch beneath it? What gear does the belayer have? How many other folks are around to provide assistance (e.g. from above or to come to your aid)
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zuegma
Sep 16, 2007, 11:01 PM
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if he hasnt lead past the halfway point just lower him. saves a lot of work and effort and is much safer. if your on the ground depending on your location you can go get help or care for your partner or whatever the circumstances dictate. if your a few pitches up then your just gonna hve to rap down with your partner, cumbersome and awkward but it works.
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trundlebum
Sep 16, 2007, 11:52 PM
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Gunkie mike:
Lets say on second pitch belay ledge (160' off the deck). You partner was leading seconf pitch, which is a left facing/slightly leaning dihedral (so if you simply lowered the leader they would not lower down 'plumb' to the belay anchors and the victime would lower outside the reach of the belayer). Top piece obviously held a 20 footer it's stsus is anybody's guess. the pitch was reasonably well protected there is a piece 8' below the top piece and one every 10' below that. The leader had pretty much the whole rack except what was left at/for belay anchor. The belayer has only a few free biners and slings beside what is in the belay anchor.
No outside assistance until you reach the ground. Or rather this is a 'to the ground' self rescue scenario I guess.
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coastal_climber
Sep 17, 2007, 2:00 AM
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You need to get CLIMBING SELF-RESCUE: Improvising Solutions For Serious Situations by Andy Tyson & Molly Loomis. It covers lots of info, and has scenarios where you try to figure out the rescue.
>Cam
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majid_sabet
Sep 17, 2007, 3:11 AM
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[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Sep 17, 2007, 6:19 AM)
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coastal_climber
Sep 17, 2007, 3:59 AM
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That rock looks unstable. Bad route choice Majid.
>Cam
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knieveltech
Sep 17, 2007, 5:34 AM
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Assuming there's no major ledges or other obstructions between the leader and the belay I'm probably do something like:
Lower leader to belay and assess condition/treat as necessary given available supplies.
If the leader needs serious medical attention I'm going to check for cellphone service and then call 911.
If cellphone service isn't available I'll try to flag down someone on the ground to run for help/a phone.
If there are no major obstructions between the belay and the ground I'm going to lower the leader to the bottom of the route then rapp off.
If there are ledges, trees, or other crap the leader could get entangled in on the way down I'm going to clip the leader into the anchor, pull the rope, rig a tandem rappel off a cow's tail, then rapp us both to the ground.
Once on the ground, I'd either stay with the leader and provide what care I could (assuming someone else had gone for help or I was able to get EMS on the phone). If no help was imminent I'd do what I could to get the leader stabilized and comfortable, then make a mad dash for civilization and help.
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Assuming major obstructions between belay and the leader:
Escape belay
Rig rope-solo (assuming there's enough rope available)
Re-lead the route (aid as necessary)
Once leader is reached assess condition and treat as necessary given supplies on hand, contact 911/have someone go for help if necessary and an option
build an anchor and get the leader clipped into it.
descend to the original anchor, dismantle anchor and free rope.
jug back to top anchor, rig tandem rappel, rap down, repeat as necessary to reach the ground.
all other steps same as above.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 17, 2007, 2:24 PM
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trundlebum wrote: Gunkie mike: Lets say on second pitch belay ledge (160' off the deck). You partner was leading seconf pitch, which is a left facing/slightly leaning dihedral (so if you simply lowered the leader they would not lower down 'plumb' to the belay anchors and the victime would lower outside the reach of the belayer). Top piece obviously held a 20 footer it's stsus is anybody's guess. the pitch was reasonably well protected there is a piece 8' below the top piece and one every 10' below that. The leader had pretty much the whole rack except what was left at/for belay anchor. The belayer has only a few free biners and slings beside what is in the belay anchor. No outside assistance until you reach the ground. Or rather this is a 'to the ground' self rescue scenario I guess.
This is a little more complicated than your first scenario (in which all you need to do is lower him to the belay.
You can't rescue someone if you can't get to them. So, what you may have to do is pendulum over and set up a belay where they are (or at least in line vertically with them) They just took a fall on a piece, so you know it is pretty solid, but you don't want to take out any more gear than necessary. You will take down the anchor and start climbing until you are at a point that you can a) reach them b)climb over to them or c)in some way pendulum over. Keep in mind that as you ascend, your partner will descend. Once you reach your partner, you can build a rappel, and descend with a counter-weight rappel.
Josh
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majid_sabet
Sep 18, 2007, 5:05 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: majid_sabet wrote: [IMG]http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6861/untitled1mz7.jpg[/IMG] Call me crazy, but threading the rope through a bolt hanger and climbing passed it seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Well
If a climber is that Yoo Yoo to run his rope thru the hangers to lower his injured buddy,he should not be climbing at all.
Plus, do not ever follow my images( they are there to offer some general ideas), otherwise you endup carrying a 21" tire in your back.
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dingus
Sep 18, 2007, 5:11 PM
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Cell phone is my primary leader-is-hurt rescue technique. So too it is MOST other climbers.
Yall need to know that. You get hurt on lead and chances are very very good your partner will have to go get help.
DMT
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microbarn
Sep 18, 2007, 5:49 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Plus, do not ever follow my images( they are there to offer some general ideas), otherwise you endup carrying a 21" tire in your back.
Don't put yourself down that much. Since I have started carrying my 21" tire around I have found a lot of good uses for that sucker. You wouldn't believe how often the canoe, tire, I-beam scenario comes up when hiking near cliffs without a helmet.
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papounet
Oct 15, 2007, 5:24 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: You need to get CLIMBING SELF-RESCUE: Improvising Solutions For Serious Situations by Andy Tyson & Molly Loomis. It covers lots of info, and has scenarios where you try to figure out the rescue. >Cam
Second that.
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