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sighko1
Dec 10, 2007, 7:52 PM
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Registered: Apr 11, 2007
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I am new to sport climbing and its fun and all, but it seems for real adventure I have to transition to Trad climbing. Unfortunately I haven't found anyone locally that will teach me the Trad ropes.
I meant to learn in Yosemite this past summer but unfortunately I missed the season due to an injury. I have never been to Joshua Tree but from what I have read and seen online it sounds amazing. It also seems like a great place to learn Trad.
I was planning on making my way to JT at the end of Jan or early Feb and there taking a 1 day class with one of the guiding organizations.
I am curious if this would be a good time to go to JT and if anyone can recommend a good school that I should take a class from.
I have all my own gear, including a 1 full set of Met cams, 1 full set of nuts and 2 full sets up Hexes.
Would you recommend picking up another set of 1-5 Cams if I plan on climbing for 2 more days after my class
Also I am 5.11 gym climbing, 5.10 outside climber with limited outdoor lead experience. I will probably be traveling with to 5.9 climbers with very limited lead experience but solid climbers (we climb 2-4 days a week in the gym)
Thanks for all your help.
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coastal_climber
Dec 10, 2007, 8:03 PM
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To start, if you are leading 5.10 outside (I'm guessing sport) then you will be starting at 5.5 trad. It is a lot harder.
Do a google search, there are lots of guides at JT.
>Cam
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moditup
Dec 10, 2007, 8:14 PM
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Good lord you have a lot of gear for never having trad climbed before. People are probably going to whine at you for having so many hexes, but to each his own. I have 2 sets of cams, 2 sets of nuts, one hex (wtf?), going to get some tricams soon.
I learned by following really good leaders, mostly at Lover's Leap. Read Long's anchor books and know how to recognize a good anchor/placement from a bad one. I'd say that a guide might be a waste of money (but judging from your gear, you might have that money to spare?).
Trad climbing is harder and slower than sport climbing (so you'll be climbing several grades lower at the start) because there's a big mind aspect, and you have to think a lot more, find stances, etc. A lot more can go wrong with pro than just back- or Z-clipping.
But it's way more fun. Once you've gone trad you'll never go back. Enjoy! I'll be in Jtree before you looks like. I'll try not to leave too many blood splotches for you.
(This post was edited by moditup on Dec 10, 2007, 8:15 PM)
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xtremst80
Dec 10, 2007, 8:51 PM
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Registered: Jul 24, 2006
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Call up Joshua Tree guides. Tell them you want to learn trad with Seth Zaharias, He is an awesome teacher!
http://www.joshuatreeguides.com/
(This post was edited by xtremst80 on Dec 10, 2007, 8:52 PM)
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sighko1
Dec 10, 2007, 8:52 PM
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Registered: Apr 11, 2007
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Yeah, I have been building up gear for 2 years, cashing in on sales and such trying to spread out the cost. I knew that trad was the way to go so I started collecting as I learned sport climb and then I was injured so had plenty of time for internet climbing (killing time on forums and looking for deals).
But its amazing the deals you can get on climbing gear if your in no rush. That whole double set of brand new Hexes only cost me $30 total. In the Bay Area, it always seems that some new college student is selling his brand new rack for like 1/10th of the price.
I have seen all the different guiding services websites, but I was curious if someone could recommend one. I only plan on doing 5.5s and the like to learn the way.
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jt512
Dec 10, 2007, 9:40 PM
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sighko1 wrote: I was planning on making my way to JT at the end of Jan or early Feb and there taking a 1 day class with one of the guiding organizations.
You have no trad experience, and you say elsewhere that you have no trad-experienced partners; so, you've decided to learn from professional guides. That's the best option in your circumstances, and also happens to be what I did when I was starting out. Problem is that you can't learn enough trad skills in one day from a guide to trad climb safely on your own. Furthermore, Joshua Tree climbs weirdly; it is nothing whatsoever like the gym. You might as well never have set foot in a gym. Essentially, you'll be learning to climb from scratch. If you climb 5.11 in the gym, you'll find 5.7 challenging at J Tree; not that it's inherently harder, it's just different. So, you have the dual burden of learning a new type of climbing and trad skills simultaneously. You can not do this safely in a day with a guide.
A three-day seminar might be enough to get you started, if you're smart and careful. Typically, in such a seminar you'd spend a day concentrating on climbing technique, a day on anchor building, and a day on lead-climbing skills. This would be a particlularly good option if your friends flake (as often happens).
Another option for your upcoming trip, especially if your friends happen not to flake, would be to put the lead climbing on hold. Spend a day with a guide climbing and learning to build equalized anchors, and plan on just top-roping for the remainder of the trip. If you know how to build anchors, you can toprope the majority of routes at J Tree, since the tops of most formations can be accessed by "easy" descent routes. However, you must be able to build bomber equalized top rope anchors using gear. Few routes have bolt anchors.
In reply to: I am curious if this would be a good time to go to JT and if anyone can recommend a good school that I should take a class from.
It can be chilly that time of year, but chances are you will have climbable weather. If it's cold, go to the Indian Cove section of the park, which is at a lower elevation, and is generally 10 degrees warmer, than the main park.
In reply to: I have all my own gear, including a 1 full set of Met cams, 1 full set of nuts and 2 full sets up Hexes. Would you recommend picking up another set of 1-5 Cams if I plan on climbing for 2 more days after my class
If you're going to hire a guide, let him assess your rack. There is a very good climbing gear store near the park entrance, where you can pick up whatever you might need. Maybe they'll even buy back your hexes.
In reply to: Also I am 5.11 gym climbing, 5.10 outside climber with limited outdoor lead experience. I will probably be traveling with to 5.9 climbers with very limited lead experience but solid climbers (we climb 2-4 days a week in the gym)
That is recipe for a serious accident. This group needs a guide, or should just boulder. Toproping might be an option, provided you've taken proper instruction from a guide, and he and you have agreed that you are ready to build toprope anchors on your own.
Jay
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jt512
Dec 10, 2007, 9:47 PM
Post #7 of 10
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sighko1 wrote: I have seen all the different guiding services websites, but I was curious if someone could recommend one. I only plan on doing 5.5s and the like to learn the way.
Vertical Adventures and the Joshua Tree Rock Climbing School are excellent. Their guides are highly qualified, and both schools are have been around since, like, before the invention of climbing shoes.
Jay
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sighko1
Dec 10, 2007, 9:48 PM
Post #8 of 10
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Registered: Apr 11, 2007
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Thanks for all that advice.
I build top rope anchors all the time at my various local craigs, but rarely do I use trad gear and if I do its like a nut to backup a suspect bolt.
It doesn't seem to me that trad anchors would be much more difficult. All the same physics and angles apply. Is this a bad assumption?
Maybe a better options is to make a first trip to boulder and top rope, and then return later for a trad class.
I had always thought the bes time of year for JT was early in the new year, is there a better time?
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caughtinside
Dec 10, 2007, 9:50 PM
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If you want to maximize the value you get from the class, you should get a copy of John Long's Climbing Anchors book, read it, and practice building anchors on the ground at a local crag or bouldering area.
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jt512
Dec 10, 2007, 10:03 PM
Post #10 of 10
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sighko1 wrote: Thanks for all that advice. I build top rope anchors all the time at my various local craigs, but rarely do I use trad gear and if I do its like a nut to backup a suspect bolt. It doesn't seem to me that trad anchors would be much more difficult. All the same physics and angles apply. Is this a bad assumption?
Well, physics is physics, so the same physics applies. But you have supplied no evidence that you understand that physics and can apply it to building anchors using gear. As somebody once said, in theory there ought to be no difference between practice in theory, but in practice there is. IMO, if you have not read John Long's new edition of Rock Climbing Anchors you're not even ready to take an anchor building class from a guide; you should be prepared ahead of time with the concepts in that book -- that's the theory. Then, you can go out with a guide and get the practical experience of building real anchors under supervision, and having those anchors critiqued by an expert.
In reply to: Maybe a better options is to make a first trip to boulder and top rope, and then return later for a trad class.
Yes, but again, you need to have anchor building wired for top-roping at J Tree.
In reply to: I had always thought the bes time of year for JT was early in the new year, is there a better time?
No, the best time of year is late fall and early spring. Dead of winter is usually climbable, but often chilly, and occasionally you get rained out for a day (but rarely two in a row).
Jay
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