|
captromalley
Feb 7, 2008, 8:22 PM
Post #1 of 27
(3901 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 47
|
I am a Boston area rock climber. A gym has just opened in my local area and has asked me to essentially head the rock climbing department. The BIG problem is, it is a Health Club type gym, meaning there is all types of equipment and the rock climbing aspect is only a small portion. If anyone has any experience in some of the basic problems associated, for example, the impossibility of using chalk I would love to hear. Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
olderic
Feb 7, 2008, 8:40 PM
Post #2 of 27
(3876 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 1539
|
Get in touch with the folks at NAC (Northampton Athletic Club (not to far away)). That's the only place that I am aware of around here (New England) taht has been able to run a somewhat successful "real" climbing wall in a health club environment.
|
|
|
|
|
rosco22
Feb 7, 2008, 9:00 PM
Post #3 of 27
(3844 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 12
|
We have the same issue at my college, so I know how crappy this situation can be. Not to mention that the director of the wellness center knows nothing about climbing or the safety aspects behind it (he bought screw gate hardware that specifically says not for climbing or overhead lifting for replacement anchors, and when shoes with holes in them were mentioned he said to take them down to a tire shop and get a patch put on them, ya, thats what I have to put up with), but, to help with some problems such as no chalk, try finding liquid chalk. It works alright, so if you can somehow get the gym to purchase that for your climbers at first, then you could eventually ween them onto it and have them purchase it for themselves later. Also, to attract the "fitness" crowd, try marketing the wall as a fitness tool. Get your facts about how many calories you can burn in an hour of climbing (which I believe to be around 600), market the benefits of climbing such as flexibility, strength, power, and over all health. Mention how hard it is to be consistent with monotonous tasks that weight lifting turns into, and how easy it is to "waste" hours every day just climbing, all the time having blast while burning calories and getting fit. You'll be surprised how quickly you'll hook people with the idea of an actual fun workout. Also, be sure that you have bomber easy routes for people to start on, if they feel like they just owned a tough route (relative to there ability) they are far more likely to return.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Feb 7, 2008, 9:36 PM
Post #4 of 27
(3791 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
Been there, done that. Except that instead of getting in on the ground floor like you, I inherited such a wall that everyone else had washed their hands of. I stepped in and kept it going for a couple years, out of pure love and personal interest, and when I left, the wall closed.
I could have done more to try to make it a viable entity that *might* have outlived me, but you know, I had more important things in my life, and these things will suck up as much energy as you can pour into them. I was sorry to see it fold, because for me and many others over the years, that little wall meant an introduction to climbing (and all the life-changes that came with it) which never would have happened otherwise. But such is life. And frankly, after the senior staffing at this gym changed, there was no longer any support for the program, so it was just a matter of time.
Eek! Just realized what a downer that sounds like! Honestly, I had a great time, and years later, I still have good friends that I met through the program.
Anyway, if you have any more specific questions, I'd be happy to take them, either here or via PM.
Oh, and where in Boston? (I'm a local as well).
Cheers,
GO
|
|
|
|
|
karlita
Feb 7, 2008, 9:52 PM
Post #5 of 27
(3770 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2006
Posts: 11
|
By the way we use chalk at the NAC (but it's supposed to be NON-loose chalk only.)
|
|
|
|
|
synrock
Feb 7, 2008, 10:49 PM
Post #6 of 27
(3730 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 282
|
If you are not allowed to use chalk I have a solution.
|
|
|
|
|
captromalley
Feb 9, 2008, 2:22 AM
Post #7 of 27
(3596 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 47
|
Thanks all. I currently don't have in internet so I can't get on that often now but heres what I was thinkin. As far as liquid chalk, is it easy to make? Just chalk and rubbing alcohol essentially? Also the whole idea of chalk bags with a absorbent rag of some sort might slightly work. It's an excellent wall for what it is. Three top rope sections and three auto belay and a boulder section. Real nice for a regular gym. Excellent features too. As for the whole calories burned to "sell" climbing is excellent. Thanks a lot and when I get near a signal again and have more battery I'll send a few of you a message, Thanks again.
Peace
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Feb 9, 2008, 2:28 AM
Post #8 of 27
(3593 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
captromalley wrote: Thanks all. I currently don't have in internet so I can't get on that often now but heres what I was thinkin. As far as liquid chalk, is it easy to make? Just chalk and rubbing alcohol essentially? Also the whole idea of chalk bags with a absorbent rag of some sort might slightly work. It's an excellent wall for what it is. Three top rope sections and three auto belay and a boulder section. Real nice for a regular gym. Excellent features too. As for the whole calories burned to "sell" climbing is excellent. Thanks a lot and when I get near a signal again and have more battery I'll send a few of you a message, Thanks again. Peace
the more often you wash the holds, the less you need chalk at an indoor facility. do they have something set up already for you to wash the holds? cause if not, that is gonna end up being a big problem. is it out in the open air, or in it's own separate room. if its in its own room, i dont think the chalk would be that much of a problem? the gym i went to in high school was joined to a health club type gym.
|
|
|
|
|
taydude
Feb 9, 2008, 3:46 AM
Post #9 of 27
(3552 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2006
Posts: 531
|
Liquid chalk is a product. It comes in a squeeze bottle. It still puts chalk on your hands so the holds will still get dirty but it'll solve the problem of dust clouds.
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Feb 9, 2008, 4:13 AM
Post #10 of 27
(3535 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
taydude wrote: Liquid chalk is a product. It comes in a squeeze bottle. It still puts chalk on your hands so the holds will still get dirty but it'll solve the problem of dust clouds.
have you actually used the liquid chalk? i've seen it a bunch of places, but never ponied up to try.
|
|
|
|
|
yokese
Feb 9, 2008, 5:04 AM
Post #11 of 27
(3517 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 18, 2006
Posts: 672
|
clausti wrote: taydude wrote: Liquid chalk is a product. It comes in a squeeze bottle. It still puts chalk on your hands so the holds will still get dirty but it'll solve the problem of dust clouds. have you actually used the liquid chalk? i've seen it a bunch of places, but never ponied up to try.
I did, and the liquid chalk didn't work at all for me. As soon as you have touched three crimpers the fingertips are not chalked anymore. I guess that for less hand-sweaty people it might work.
(This post was edited by yokese on Feb 9, 2008, 5:18 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Feb 9, 2008, 5:10 AM
Post #12 of 27
(3514 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
yokese wrote: clausti wrote: taydude wrote: Liquid chalk is a product. It comes in a squeeze bottle. It still puts chalk on your hands so the holds will still get dirty but it'll solve the problem of dust clouds. have you actually used the liquid chalk? i've seen it a bunch of places, but never ponied up to try. I did, and the liquid chalk didn't work at all for me. As soon as you have touched three crimpers the fingertips are not chalked anymore. I guess that for less hand-sweaty people it might work.
bummer. it prolly woudlnt work for me then, or at least no in the good ol' southeast summers.
|
|
|
|
|
camhead
Feb 10, 2008, 1:05 AM
Post #13 of 27
(3466 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
|
clausti wrote: yokese wrote: clausti wrote: taydude wrote: Liquid chalk is a product. It comes in a squeeze bottle. It still puts chalk on your hands so the holds will still get dirty but it'll solve the problem of dust clouds. have you actually used the liquid chalk? i've seen it a bunch of places, but never ponied up to try. I did, and the liquid chalk didn't work at all for me. As soon as you have touched three crimpers the fingertips are not chalked anymore. I guess that for less hand-sweaty people it might work. bummer. it prolly woudlnt work for me then, or at least no in the good ol' southeast summers.
testing... one, two, three, fucking fascists!
|
|
|
|
|
captromalley
Feb 11, 2008, 12:31 AM
Post #14 of 27
(3382 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 47
|
Now would cleaning still be a big deal if no chalk is introduced in the first place? And yes I have used liquid chalk but I'm wondering if A. it will still cause chalk to be in the air and B. Cost to the gym. The climbing wall is right in the middle of the gym with no walls separating it from the
....oh...lets say....tread mills.
|
|
|
|
|
ThaRiddla
Feb 11, 2008, 12:22 PM
Post #15 of 27
(3298 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 7, 2007
Posts: 11
|
yes, you'll still need to clean holds due to buildup of shoe rubber and grease/skin from hands. You might even have to clean more often than gyms that use chalk since the holds will probably get greasier faster and you can't really brush that stuff off.
|
|
|
|
|
jmvc
Feb 11, 2008, 1:14 PM
Post #16 of 27
(3281 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 647
|
Would they perhaps let you use those chalk balls? I've found them quite acceptable unless you're climbing really hard and need to be able to chalk your hand instantly..
|
|
|
|
|
captromalley
Feb 11, 2008, 1:42 PM
Post #17 of 27
(3260 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 47
|
Well thanks again for all the reply's. I do think its pretty silly that these types of places spend all the money to build these attractions for there customers without looking into what it actually takes to have a successful rock wall. Oh well.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Feb 11, 2008, 3:21 PM
Post #18 of 27
(3217 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
I ran a successful small rock wall for years that, like the one you describe, was smack dab in the middle of the Nautilus and Starimaster machines.
We weren't allowed chalk by the management. Who gives a damn? Chalk is not actually necessary to climb. On days when it was warm in there, it wasn't the best, but you make do.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Feb 11, 2008, 3:30 PM
Post #19 of 27
(3208 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
jmvc wrote: Would they perhaps let you use those chalk balls?
The local REI has a climbing tower, and loose chalk is prohibited. They use a chalk ball, and it's better than nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kyleshea
Feb 11, 2008, 4:59 PM
Post #21 of 27
(3141 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1716
|
camhead wrote: clausti wrote: yokese wrote: clausti wrote: taydude wrote: Liquid chalk is a product. It comes in a squeeze bottle. It still puts chalk on your hands so the holds will still get dirty but it'll solve the problem of dust clouds.have you actually used the liquid chalk? i've seen it a bunch of places, but never ponied up to try. I did, and the liquid chalk didn't work at all for me. As soon as you have touched three crimpers the fingertips are not chalked anymore. I guess that for less hand-sweaty people it might work. bummer. it prolly woudlnt work for me then, or at least no in the good ol' southeast summers. testing... one, two, three, fucking fascists!
liquid chalk works well as a base layer. use some on a hot day and then just chalk up the tips as needed. i think that alcohol also blocks sweat glands.
you can make your own with rubbing alcohol and chalk, its cheap. no need for the commercial stuff. [#]
|
|
|
|
|
djlachelt
Feb 12, 2008, 3:55 PM
Post #22 of 27
(3064 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 261
|
captromalley wrote: As for the whole calories burned to "sell" climbing is excellent.
Be careful not to "oversell". I'm pretty sure that the 600 cals thing is when actually climbing. Spending an hour "climbing" usually doesn't mean you're actually climbing for that amount of time. I encourage you to check it out in more detail before you start quoting this to your customers.
This site has all of the detailed numbers... though I wished they had referenced the source of the data.
http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist4.htm
I observe that people climbing spend about a third of their activity time actually climbing (1/3 climbing, 1/3 belaying, 1/3 switching over and chatting). So you might tell your customers that an hour of climbing with a friend is comparable to a 20 minute spinning class (Bicycling, stationary, vigorous effort). Of course, most of us on this site would go on to say that it's no contest which activity we'd rather do.
I would say that bouldering is even harder to compare. The intensity is higher, but people normally take considerably longer rests.
This link has some more discussion specifically about climbing... http://www.healthatoz.com/...por/rockclimbing.jsp
Notable is this quote, In reply to: However, due to its great intensity and physical demand, duration is more limited than most activities.
If anyone has a link to a detailed description of the conditions under which these calorie counts were taken it would be really great. Were the climbers climbing at their limit? Doing laps on the wall? Does the rest time between climbs count? Can you compare doing laps on a climb way below your limit with working on climbs at your limit with rests in between?
|
|
|
|
|
captromalley
Feb 12, 2008, 7:07 PM
Post #23 of 27
(3011 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 47
|
Well I just got in last night for a few hours to give all the climbs a test with all the new equipment to make sure it all works. A few major problems I have found right off the bat are going to make this a very tough job but the features on this wall are excellent. You can climb the entire 40 ft face without using a single "hold". How awesome is that. But yea....cracklover, if you ever have a bit of free time and would like to take a look, climb for free, give advice, let me know. Thanks again
|
|
|
|
|
Valarc
Feb 12, 2008, 7:47 PM
Post #24 of 27
(2975 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 1473
|
captromalley wrote: You can climb the entire 40 ft face without using a single "hold". How awesome is that.
Not awesome at all. Super-featured walls are boring and difficult to force interesting movement unless you resort to convoluted "naturals are off" rules. I'd MUCH rather have plain plywood with a coat of house paint than some ridiculously featured "climbable without bolt-on holds" wall.
|
|
|
|
|
climb4free
Feb 12, 2008, 10:50 PM
Post #25 of 27
(2897 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 11, 2007
Posts: 283
|
I second the Eco Ball suggestion for non-chalkable areas. There is an Outdoor apparel and equipment shop here and they have a bouldering cave downstairs. They do not allow chalk for the obvious reason of it getting all over the clothes. We used the eco-balls when climbing there. They work well (just different). And they last a long time.
climb4free
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
