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mountainmike
Oct 17, 2001, 1:20 AM
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Moving to Colorado I have recently become more aware of the Fee Demo program. I personaly don't think that we should pay to use land that we as citizens already own. Especially through a program payed for by the ARC. Anyway that is my opion. What does everyone else think?
[ This Message was edited by: mountainmike on 2001-10-16 18:36 ]
[ This Message was edited by: mountainmike on 2001-10-18 11:08 ]
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rrrADAM
Oct 17, 2001, 1:36 AM
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I do not pay the fee demo for climbing. I will pay it if I plan to camp, as I use developed camping areas, but not just for climbing, those areas are paid for, and developed by us.
I've gotten plenty of BS tickets, the USFS even misprinted them, and I throw them all away, in the propper recepticle ofcourse.
I contacted Sam Davidson of the Acces Fund, I am a member, he was the senior policy analyst then, and he stated, "I cannot tell you not to pay it, but I have never heard of someone succesfully prosecuted for not paying. It is a fee 'demonstration', and if you choose not to 'demonstrate' by paying, that's up to you." You must be prepared to fight if you're going to take this stance though.
As a side note, The Access Fund needs membership dues to fight against these very types of things. As well as educating Land MGRs about climbing, lobbying against bolting bans, 'Adopt-A-Crag' cleanups, trail building, and even purchasing private land with climbing bans in place then donating them to become public parks, thus lifting the ban. If you can only afford to send $20 a year do so, if you can afford more, that's even better.
rrrADAM
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woodse
Oct 17, 2001, 2:42 AM
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As a lifetime Colorado resident I have a variety of feelings on the subject. Near my hometown in Ouray this summer there were protests all season long and at first I was like that is pretty shitty, but I soon learned that because of negligent tourists and unrespectful people the cost of maintaining and supervising these areas had become horrendous. Although I hate paying the fee I also realize that unless people but there brains back in their heads then this is the only way to experience these areas in the condition they should be. If only everyone could learn respect!!!!
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talons05
Oct 17, 2001, 3:33 AM
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I too just recently moved to Colorado (about 6 months ago) and I have not heard of this... What is the ARC? Also, where do you pay the fee at, and to whom? I can't really form a solid opinion without more details, but right now it sounds pretty low...
AW
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rrrADAM
Oct 17, 2001, 3:45 AM
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Fee Demo was created in '96 I think, passed by Congress as a demonstration on select USFS land, Los Angeles National Forest, Ca., Mt. Lemmon, Az, and many more.
The purpose of the 'Demonstration' is to show that people will pay more $$$ to access land that they already pay for through their taxes. It was only supposed to last for 2 or 3 years, but keeps getting extended. Unfortunately, 99% of the people pay for it, no questions, and it'll probably become law, and not just a demonstration anymore.
Check The Access Fund's site:
http://www.accessfund.org
rrrADAM
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2001-10-16 20:46 ]
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mountainmike
Oct 17, 2001, 6:10 AM
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ARC is the American Recreation Coalition. It is a group of buisnesses such as ORV and RV manufacturers, Coleman, NRA, Disney, and so on. That helped push Senator Frank Murkowski's Fee Demo program. They are in a challenge cost-share partnership or ccsp with the government. They are paying for the fee demo program to be put in place. In hopes that they will be able to control the commercial aspects that they will bring to the parks. And they are in position to do this. Because they are part of the ccsp they get to collect the date and analize it for the fee demo program. They then get to present it to congress.
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mountainmike
Oct 17, 2001, 6:15 AM
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To comment on what "woodse" said. Most of the money that is collected goes to things like paveing the roads or parking lots that were once dirt. Or other similar things. It still remains that most trail maintence is done by voluteers. These fees will keep lower income families from visiting the parks as often. And the money stays in the park where it is payed. Therefore the smaller parks that don't get as many visitors will get short changed and the larger parks will have to much. (The money made in parks pre-fee demo was sent to the treasurey)
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