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robpatterson5
May 15, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Anyone have and advice on this one?
I've got a set of WC hexes that are not seeing too much use and I'm thinking about it.
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angry
May 15, 2008, 10:59 PM
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How much do you expect to save?
Lets say you can cut the weight in half (you can't though). With an entire set, that's like 1/4 lb. And now you have suspect gear.
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doz
May 15, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Odd thought?! There is no question that if you did drill and one failed it would be your butt. No hospital money from wild Country (non anyway) and not much sympathy from the climbing community. Is the few oz. you would save be worth the pucker factor every time you placed one.
I am assuming you are talking for alpine routs? Aid, where weight matters generally people don't bring hexes, and I have not personally placed a hex in YEARS on a trad rout. I have gotten cam lazy. If alpine is your thing it may work. If you take a wipper big enough to deform and pull a modified hex your are probably going to be beat to crap by the rock anyway.
I am all for weight saving but you wont find me drilling my gear. And to be honest I would try and convince you not to as well.
Your ass not mine.
Doz
P.S. don’t do it man
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gunkiemike
May 15, 2008, 11:20 PM
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angry wrote: How much do you expect to save? Lets say you can cut the weight in half (you can't though). With an entire set, that's like 1/4 lb. And now you have suspect gear.
You could save it instead by switching from a couple heavy Nalgene bottles to thin PETE bottles from the grocery store (Poland Spring or equivalent). Light gear is great but sketch gear isn't. I'm sure it could be done safely (look at Chouinard hex history) but it's your call. And make sure your partners are OK with it!
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jeremy11
May 16, 2008, 2:48 AM
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look at the Cilogear ad in Climbing magazine of Maxime Turgeon solo climbing in the Himalayas. There appears to be a red WC hex on his harness that is drilled out. But he already had the rest of his kit ultralight - like the full Dyneema pack, and undoubtedly the water bottles were not 4 oz Nalgenes, and solo climbing, it was probably along for rap anchor usage, so not a big whipper. For general use, I'd say NO. But hexes are amazing.
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robpatterson5
May 16, 2008, 3:57 AM
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Thanks Jeremy, that was actually what got me thinking about that.
That and the popularity of people drilling out BD and Chuinerioid (sp) hexes back in the day. It's amazing how common a practice it was back then.
If my old hexes were BD's I'd just toss them on the drill press, but what has me hesitant is the curved faces on the WC's.
Are there any engineers or old timers out there with informed opinions on the subject?
lol, I guess I'm really not expecting a serious response posting this on RC.com but I'd like to keep the warning posts to a minimum, unless your speaking from experience.
lol, to be perfectly frank, I already know that this is a bad idea and you don't have to remind me. Hypothetically speaking though, if I were too turn the drill press on the hexes, any advice from the old timers?
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ryanb
May 16, 2008, 5:13 AM
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Might be okay as a bale piece but in general a bad idea...hexes used to be made of much thicker material (some pics at: http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm) and still had plenty of strength when drilled. As manufacturing technology improved hexes got thinner and people stopped drilling them.
It would be interesting to drill one and send it to that guy who does pull tests on here?
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stymingersfink
May 16, 2008, 5:32 AM
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ryanb wrote: Might be okay as a bale piece but in general a bad idea...hexes used to be made of much thicker material (some pics at: http://www.needlesports.com/...museum/nutsstory.htm) and still had plenty of strength when drilled. As manufacturing technology improved hexes got thinner and people stopped drilling them. It would be interesting to drill one and send it to that guy who does pull tests on here?
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jeremy11
May 16, 2008, 11:47 PM
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ryanb wrote: ...hexes used to be made of much thicker material .... and still had plenty of strength when drilled. As manufacturing technology improved hexes got thinner and people stopped drilling them.
I think some of the old hexes were drilled from the factory. It would be interesting to compare weight and strength on an old drilled hex vs a new non drilled hex in the same size (no sling material for a level playing field) - with the thicker walls, perhaps the drilled old hexes are no lighter than the new ones?
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boulder_rich
May 17, 2008, 1:44 AM
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This is an interesting thread from an engineering perspective. I'd love it if someone created a CAD model of the hex with and without the proposed holes. Then we could create a FEM (finite element modeling) mesh and analyze the structural integrity of the hex from a theoretical standpoint.
BTW, yes, I am an engineer, in case it wasn't obvious. But if the hole is small enough relative to the piece, it probably wouldn't affect the strength too much. But I'd have to see exactly where you're putting these holes and how big they are relative to the hex.
But if you do decide to start drilling away, be sure to debur and chamfer the hole and make sure that there no sharp edges. Those edges can both cut your soft gear and create stress concentration which weakens the overall hex.
To put it into perspective, a few holes were drilled into the hex for the wires or sling. What's one more?
As for pull testing, I'd rather see a shock-load test rather than a slow pull. That's more likely what you'd see taking a whipper.
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greenketch
May 17, 2008, 2:26 AM
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Not on here much but I think the answer is to call the manufacture. I started on pins and then hexs as clean moved in. A lot of drilling of hexes was done by some of us. When you contacted the factory they would often provide a pattern and diameters of how to drill their hexes. If these ar eof the vintage that takes holes the pepes may have a pattern still around.
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adatesman
May 17, 2008, 2:50 AM
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robpatterson5
May 17, 2008, 3:58 AM
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Cool, thanks for all the replies guys. I may toss a few on the drill press and see what happens.
adatesman, if I do so in the next week or so, could I count on you for some pull testing? Maybe not to destruction deliberately, but some appropriate shock loading - say 1/2 too 2/3's strength?
I'd be interested to see what comes out. Still no drill presses will touch metal until I see what a bad idea the folks over at the WC factory think this is!
In the meantime many thanks all!
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secretninja
May 17, 2008, 4:37 AM
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if you really wanted to save some weight you should really replace that shiny new # 6 cam with a folgers can girth hitched to some hardawre store rope. I'll even take that old "inferior" gear off your hands, free of charge 
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montentcontent
May 17, 2008, 4:42 AM
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Just wanted to add a couple things that struck me while reading this thread (I've thought about this idea just a bit myself):
- I expect a large reason for the wall thickness is to prevent buckling of the sides, not because of too high of stress levels (material failure), suggesting extra material could be removed.
- A FEM analysis could be pretty helpful in identifying low stress areas where you could afford to remove material, however, with the various loading configurations possible the boundary conditions would likely be a pain in the ass to simulate accurately/well.
- Drilling may not be performed by the manufacturer, despite weight savings, due to the increased manufacturing costs with added processes.
Curious to see the results.
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