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social_climber
Aug 29, 2008, 7:42 PM
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Alright, so I recently got back into climbing and bought a family pass for my wife, 2 step-kids, and my little sister.
I finished climbing (indoors) on a slab that has a fair positive incline. Most of the ropes at this gym wrap around the top bar twice in order to increase friction. At the top, I tried to remind her "this rope has less friction, I'm going to come down faster." She said "what?" I repeated myself. She asked, "you want down?"
Before I could answer, she started to lower me... Fast. I wasn't ready to lower, and kicked my feet out in front of me so that I wouldn't run into the slab. I suppose the rope burnt her hand, so she wasn't really holding on to it. I hit the bottom, thankfully for the padded floor, it didn't really hurt.
I laughed it off.
The next day, (today) I told her that I didn't asked to be lowered. And that I will use the agreed command "down please" when I want to come down. Her response was "okay already!" I told her it wasn't okay until we had a mutual understanding.
Am I justified to be upset at her defensiveness? I am pretty pissed off right now. I went and asked her later, why she wouldn't just apologize if she made a mistake. She said she did several times the day before (which I don't recall at all).
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irregularpanda
Aug 29, 2008, 7:47 PM
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social_climber wrote: Alright, so I recently got back into climbing and bought a family pass for my wife, 2 step-kids, and my little sister. I finished climbing (indoors) on a slab that has a fair positive incline. Most of the ropes at this gym wrap around the top bar twice in order to increase friction. At the top, I tried to remind her "this rope has less friction, I'm going to come down faster." She said "what?" I repeated myself. She asked, "you want down?" Before I could answer, she started to lower me... Fast. I wasn't ready to lower, and kicked my feet out in front of me so that I wouldn't run into the slab. I suppose the rope burnt her hand, so she wasn't really holding on to it. I hit the bottom, thankfully for the padded floor, it didn't really hurt. I laughed it off. The next day, (today) I told her that I didn't asked to be lowered. And that I will use the agreed command "down please" when I want to come down. Her response was "okay already!" I told her it wasn't okay until we had a mutual understanding. Am I justified to be upset at her defensiveness? I am pretty pissed off right now. I went and asked her later, why she wouldn't just apologize if she made a mistake. She said she did several times the day before (which I don't recall at all).
Are strangers on the internet the new Dr. Phil?
Yes you probably have a right to be angry, but that right is also unjustified because it sounds like you guys didn't establish a standard communication system before hand. Or maybe you did, but it wasn't actually agreed upon.
She should be pissed at you for asking strangers on the internet about this. Yous should go back to the gym (when you're ready) pay for belay lessons. That way, you aren't teaching her. Also, maybe go with some mutual friends. THis could ease some tension.
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Chappy76
Aug 29, 2008, 7:49 PM
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Welcome to married life dude.  Just let it go. If she apologized once, once is enough. Is hearing many times over going to make you feel any better or safer next time? No! Prior to your next climb, come together and agree on verbal and non-verbal commands to prevent any mishaps or possible arguments.
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social_climber
Aug 29, 2008, 7:57 PM
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In reply to: Are strangers on the internet the new Dr. Phil?
Well, I decided to have the wisdom to vent anonymously to the "New Dr. Phil", as opposed to going back upstairs to vent to my wife. Why that would upset her is beyond me. Maybe someone will trace my ip and come to the gym and make fun of us. Or maybe... in my haste of wanting to vent, I forgot that there will always be immature posters who feel the need to talk down to others.
Anyhow, was just hoping to hear from others who have had the same experience, and to get a less "frustrated" perception.
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coastal_climber
Aug 29, 2008, 8:00 PM
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You need good communication with your climbing partner. Nothing pisses me off more than listening to climbers with poor commands/communication.
>Cam
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tylerandapril
Aug 29, 2008, 8:01 PM
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Quit being a jerk to her. She just requires a little practice with someone besides you. You keep treating her this way, she will not want to climb. I know this from experience.
Also you need to learn the correct commands for proper communication.
You should apologize for being an asshole to her.
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social_climber
Aug 29, 2008, 8:04 PM
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In reply to: Quit being a jerk to her. She just requires a little practice with someone besides you. You keep treating her this way, she will not want to climb. I know this from experience. Also you need to learn the correct commands for proper communication. You should apologize for being an asshole to her.
Well, that's an interesting perspective.
I fail to see how mentioning that I did not asked to be lowered, and noting our agreed communication, is being as @$$hole. But hey, what do I know.
Keep them coming people, I know that the RC forums are a can of worms.
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wonderwoman
Aug 29, 2008, 8:04 PM
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My guess is that she doesn't realize that you could have been seriously hurt (or worse, were it not for an indoor padded floor). Give it some time, and try a new approach to talking with her. Try some belay practice at home - buy some books and let her read up on it.
If she drops you again, it's grounds for divorce!
And make sure she doesn't have an insurance policy out on you!
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shockabuku
Aug 29, 2008, 8:08 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: [Yes you probably have a right to be angry, but that right is also unjustified because it sounds like you guys didn't establish a standard communication system before hand. Or maybe you did, but it wasn't actually agreed upon.
What's that got to do with basically dropping him while he's in sight? She fucked up, no two ways about it. Even if he wanted to be lowered she didn't do it properly.
However, yes, the first mistake was his, and that was climbing with a belayer who didn't know what she was doing.
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silascl
Aug 29, 2008, 8:13 PM
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I'm just curious, but what does communication have to do with it? This seems to be an issue in your post, when it has nothing to do with the problem. When you reach the top of a route in a gym, 99 percent of the time you are immediately lowered back to the ground.
So, you wanted her to lower you, which she did, but then proceeded to drop you. The problem isn't communication, the problem is that she isn't belaying properly.
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JREECE
Aug 29, 2008, 8:14 PM
Post #11 of 73
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i was dropped by my mom the first time i took her with me to the gym. after that she is real careful
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wonderwoman
Aug 29, 2008, 8:16 PM
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Also - sometimes people have a hard time climbing with their SO. A simple critique can be taken as a personal attack, no matter how nicely you phrase it. And if things are bottled up or something behind the scenes is wrong, they tend to come out on the rock.
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time2clmb
Aug 29, 2008, 8:18 PM
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social_climber wrote: Alright, so I recently got back into climbing and bought a family pass for my wife, 2 step-kids, and my little sister. I finished climbing (indoors) on a slab that has a fair positive incline. Most of the ropes at this gym wrap around the top bar twice in order to increase friction. At the top, I tried to remind her "this rope has less friction, I'm going to come down faster." She said "what?" I repeated myself. She asked, "you want down?" Before I could answer, she started to lower me... Fast. I wasn't ready to lower, and kicked my feet out in front of me so that I wouldn't run into the slab. I suppose the rope burnt her hand, so she wasn't really holding on to it. I hit the bottom, thankfully for the padded floor, it didn't really hurt. I laughed it off. The next day, (today) I told her that I didn't asked to be lowered. And that I will use the agreed command "down please" when I want to come down. Her response was "okay already!" I told her it wasn't okay until we had a mutual understanding. Am I justified to be upset at her defensiveness? I am pretty pissed off right now. I went and asked her later, why she wouldn't just apologize if she made a mistake. She said she did several times the day before (which I don't recall at all).
IF this is a case of her not being experienced with you being the one with more experience, then it's your responsibility to make sure she is trained properly. Obviously she was not trained properly or she would not have dropped you. If she was trained by you then you should stop training people until you get more experience yourself. Not trying to be a dick, but I am not going to lie about my opinion either.
That totally sucks for you though. Your in a shitty situation since she is your wife, it's not like you can just ditch her.
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kriso9tails
Aug 29, 2008, 8:37 PM
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JREECE wrote: i was dropped by my mom the first time i took her with me to the gym. after that she is real careful
You mom has never dropped me at the climbing gym. By my reasoning she must love me more than you.
Actually, I've spent a fair bit of time climbing with my mom in the past. I've taken some decent whips, run stuff out and pulled some sketchy stuff. Sometimes people will joke, "What would your mother think if she knew you were doing that." and I reply, "What do you mean? She was right there when it happened."
She understands the risks and the fact that people (especially young people) like to push things a bit, but I wonder what she felt the first few times she saw me take a decent size whipper.
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flipnfall
Aug 29, 2008, 8:40 PM
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I would seriously let it pass and mark it up to her feeling embarrassed. We're all severely defensive when we're embarrassed and to have someone upset at us makes it worse. You should really look at the fact that your wife is willing to climb with you. I'm just glad that my wife is supportive of my desire to climb and that we have a million other things in common. But to get upset with someone close to you who is willing to climb with you seems like you're asking for them to stop supporting you. When you have to fight to go climbing or beg "permission" to go climbing, then you'll wish you hadn't made such a big deal about a mistake we all could have made.
You can feel upset on the inside, but I wouldn't dare show it in any other way than with the utmost understanding and patience toward your wife. Let your thankfulness be greater than your being upset. I have a friend that criticized his wife on every mistake and she finally walked out on him. Now he doesn’t have a climbing partner AND his life sucks.
I wish you well!
GT
(This post was edited by flipnfall on Oct 24, 2008, 9:13 PM)
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patmay81
Aug 29, 2008, 8:41 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: social_climber wrote: Alright, so I recently got back into climbing and bought a family pass for my wife, 2 step-kids, and my little sister. I finished climbing (indoors) on a slab that has a fair positive incline. Most of the ropes at this gym wrap around the top bar twice in order to increase friction. At the top, I tried to remind her "this rope has less friction, I'm going to come down faster." She said "what?" I repeated myself. She asked, "you want down?" Before I could answer, she started to lower me... Fast. I wasn't ready to lower, and kicked my feet out in front of me so that I wouldn't run into the slab. I suppose the rope burnt her hand, so she wasn't really holding on to it. I hit the bottom, thankfully for the padded floor, it didn't really hurt. I laughed it off. The next day, (today) I told her that I didn't asked to be lowered. And that I will use the agreed command "down please" when I want to come down. Her response was "okay already!" I told her it wasn't okay until we had a mutual understanding. Am I justified to be upset at her defensiveness? I am pretty pissed off right now. I went and asked her later, why she wouldn't just apologize if she made a mistake. She said she did several times the day before (which I don't recall at all). Are strangers on the internet the new Dr. Phil?
seriously, you weren't hurt. you were on a 30' (?) indoor wall, I can't see what you have to be pissed about. She obviously feels bad, and getting defensive is how some people deal with that, so let it go. I'm sure it won't happen again, unless she's totally clueless.
and you should be glad that there aren't many rock climbing shrinks out there or you'd be getting a bill for this post.
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carbonrx8
Aug 29, 2008, 8:52 PM
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Has she taken out a policy on you recently?
I say use this as a reason to dump her and hook up with someone prettier. And smarter.
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tedman
Aug 29, 2008, 9:03 PM
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flip has it on the mark. Think about if the situation was reversed. Of course she knows she made a huge mistake, its pretty easy for her to see that. Shes just embarrased as hell and having whoever point it out to her makes it worse and of course shes going to be super defensive about it. I'm sure she wont let it happen again. I mean you only shit in the pool once right?
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social_climber
Aug 29, 2008, 9:07 PM
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Haha, well, there was quite the range of response. Thank you all. I'll send the cheque in the mail to the most helpful poster. If you don't get it, it wasn't you. =p j/k
In retrospect, this had more to do with relationships than climbing really. The communication the next day... Which, as the last few posters have put it... can be pretty tough with the SO.
In terms of her belaying, she had learned from somewhere before, and I gave her a re-fresher. She seems to know what she's doing most of the time, but messed up. I suppose it was only her 2nd time back in the gym. It's more of an experience thing IMHO. And better to learn with that padded floor than elsewhere. It'll come. I'm confident in that.
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onceahardman
Aug 29, 2008, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: Why that would upset her is beyond me.
In reply to: I fail to see how mentioning that I did not asked to be lowered, and noting our agreed communication, is being as @$$hole. But hey, what do I know.
You clearly misunderstand.
1)climbing signals are simple. IDEALLY, ONE OR TWO WORDS. (tension!, slack! on belay, off belay watch me!)
2) YOU trusted YOUR life to her, without knowing whether she understood the signals. That's on YOU!
Really, if you want to have a conversation, and she doesn't hear you, YOU have failed to communicate! Why was your weight on the rope, if you didn't want to be lowered? It's a reasonable conclusion for her to make, if she didn't hear you. Granted, its her bad for the too-quick lower, but you, as the more-experienced leader, should have assessed the situation while you were on the ground, not while you were in the danger zone.
Don't be so quick to blame her. Re-assess your own shortcomings. You can't control her actions, only your own.
EDIT: look again at your original quote:
In reply to: At the top, I tried to remind her "this rope has less friction, I'm going to come down faster." She said "what?" I repeated myself. She asked, "you want down?"
She obviously could not hear you well. She may well have heard you say, "come down faster", which you DID, in fact, say.
She did what she heard you say, you didn't get hurt, then you bitched about it. No sex for you.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Aug 29, 2008, 9:34 PM)
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time2clmb
Aug 29, 2008, 9:55 PM
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social_climber wrote: Haha, well, there was quite the range of response. Thank you all. I'll send the cheque in the mail to the most helpful poster. If you don't get it, it wasn't you. =p j/k In retrospect, this had more to do with relationships than climbing really. The communication the next day... Which, as the last few posters have put it... can be pretty tough with the SO. In terms of her belaying, she had learned from somewhere before, and I gave her a re-fresher. She seems to know what she's doing most of the time, but messed up. I suppose it was only her 2nd time back in the gym. It's more of an experience thing IMHO. And better to learn with that padded floor than elsewhere. It'll come. I'm confident in that.
Seems? MOST of the time? You either know what you are doing all of the time or you don't know what you are doing. A padded floor is not a back up to proper belaying. She is a noob, therefore the responsibility is on you to make sure she doesn't fuck up.
Properly trained people do NOT drop their climber, even on to a padded floor. There are some nitwits on this site that will disagree with that though.
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social_climber
Aug 29, 2008, 10:11 PM
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Long day at the office today... Good thing for distractions like RC.com. =p
In reply to: 1)climbing signals are simple. IDEALLY, ONE OR TWO WORDS. (tension!, slack! on belay, off belay watch me!)
Our signal is supposed to be "Down Please!" to be lowered. My weight was on the rope because I used our other signal "take."
Well, maybe a course would be good. But she would not be willing to take one at this point because show knows "most" of what she's doing. I realize that "most" can be a dangerous word, but what can I do about that.
The only thing she really needs, is for someone to re-iterate the importance of following the signals, and for someone to stress the importance of some of the procedures... She knows them all, but needs to follow them 100% of the time.
But as wonderwoman has an understanding of... it's difficult to stress these things without the SO becomming defensive.
So, experience, and patience are going to be key.
PS. Thanks for the insights Wonderwoman!
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onceahardman
Aug 29, 2008, 10:34 PM
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In reply to: Our signal is supposed to be "Down Please!" to be lowered. My weight was on the rope because I used our other signal "take."
I understand. But instead of what your signal was "supposed to be", YOUR signal was:
"this rope has less friction, I'm going to come down faster."
"I'm gonna come down faster"...sounds a lot like "I wanna come down faster", and she obviously could not hear you well.
Then, listen to the rest of what you say...."SHE would not be willing...SHE knows most of what SHE'S doing...What SHE really needs...SHE knows them all"
Still no realization of YOUR responsibility here. I can see why she's pissed off at you. You are being childish.
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stymingersfink
Aug 29, 2008, 10:44 PM
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JREECE wrote: i was dropped by my mom the first time i took her with me to the gym. after that she is real careful roperug burn to remember me by.
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