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getoutmore
Sep 9, 2008, 4:17 PM
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I'm looking to get my first pair of downtured shoes. Possibly the Scarpa Booster.
My understanding of downturned shoes is that they are for overhanging routes (possibly vertical too) and bouldering. They are good for precision footwork on tiny holds as well as toe and heel-hooking.
My question is, how do these shoes work for smearing? What about on big foot holds on slightly less than vertical walls?
Thanks.
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carbonrx8
Sep 9, 2008, 4:20 PM
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getoutmore wrote: I'm looking to get my first pair of downtured shoes. Possibly the Scarpa Booster. My understanding of downturned shoes is that they are for overhanging routes (possibly vertical too) and bouldering. They are good for precision footwork on tiny holds as well as toe and heel-hooking. My question is, how do these shoes work for smearing? What about on big foot holds on slightly less than vertical walls? Thanks.
Personally I think upturned shoes are the shiznit. Underrated in my opinion
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AlexCV
Sep 9, 2008, 4:34 PM
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getoutmore wrote: I'm looking to get my first pair of downtured shoes. Possibly the Scarpa Booster. My understanding of downturned shoes is that they are for overhanging routes (possibly vertical too) and bouldering. They are good for precision footwork on tiny holds as well as toe and heel-hooking. My question is, how do these shoes work for smearing? What about on big foot holds on slightly less than vertical walls?
Downturned shoes are for edging and pulling with the toes. They tend to have aggressive heels for hooking. Smearing and jamming are going to be quite uncomfortable with the toes scrunched up. The lack of surface area under the shoe will also impede smearing. Big foot holds are never a problem. My "downturned" shoes are not very downturned and smear Ok (especially since the insole softens up really quickly and I size them fairly comfortably) and they edge Ok... But dime edges are a dicey proposition. They work well in pockets though because of the asymmetric shape.
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styndall
Sep 9, 2008, 5:10 PM
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carbonrx8 wrote: getoutmore wrote: I'm looking to get my first pair of downtured shoes. Possibly the Scarpa Booster. My understanding of downturned shoes is that they are for overhanging routes (possibly vertical too) and bouldering. They are good for precision footwork on tiny holds as well as toe and heel-hooking. My question is, how do these shoes work for smearing? What about on big foot holds on slightly less than vertical walls? Thanks. Personally I think upturned shoes are the shiznit. Underrated in my opinion [image]http://www.wizardofozcostumes.com/uploads/acc_munchkin_elf_shoes.jpg[/image]
Those would be rad for toe-hooking.
To the OP:
Downturned shoes will smear well enough, but because the way your foot is curled up, you probably won't get as much wall contact as you would with bigger, less aggressive shoes. For less than vertical routes with big footholds, any aggressively-downturned shoe would simultaneously hurt your feet and provide zero benefit over some big, comfortable shoes (or your tennis shoes, for that matter).
If you're new to climbing, you're probably not climbing the kinds of things where you'd see much benefit from aggressive shoes. Get strong fingers, buy cheaper shoes, and use the savings for tasty burritos!
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sungam
Sep 9, 2008, 5:19 PM
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My friend has the boosters. They aren't the best for smearing, but they do rock for what you said.
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petsfed
Sep 9, 2008, 6:01 PM
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A little bit of downturn (like Sportiva Katanas or Scarpa Visions) make for awesome crack shoes. They just arc right into the crack. A lot of downturn (like Testarrossas or V10s) will suck for crack climbing, as your toe is way too curled to be happy in a jam.
Smearing performance is more a question of how soft the shoe is, and thus how easily you can paste it into irregularities in the rock. Most severely downturned shoes are too stiff to provide good smearing. A super-stiff flat-lasted shoe (like the JB Spectre or the Sportiva Tradmaster) will smear just as poorly, although the V10 will suck even more since all you can do is hook with the toe, you can't really stand flat in them.
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Valarc
Sep 9, 2008, 6:07 PM
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petsfed wrote: Smearing performance is more a question of how soft the shoe is, and thus how easily you can paste it into irregularities in the rock. Most severely downturned shoes are too stiff to provide good smearing.
I've also found it depends on the rubber as much as the toe shape. In my experience, the rubber used on most sportiva shoes sucks ass for smearing compared to the much softer rubber on many five ten shoes.
Edit: I guess what we said sounds similar - what I was trying to say is, there are two kinds of "stiff"... a stiff last, and stiff rubber. A stiff last with softer rubber will still probably smear better than a soft last with stiff rubber. I personally find the rubber even on soft lasted sportiva shoes to suck for smearing.
(This post was edited by Valarc on Sep 9, 2008, 6:09 PM)
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churningindawake
Sep 9, 2008, 6:26 PM
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I really like the muira vs's.
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boulderflasher
Sep 9, 2008, 6:39 PM
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I'm looking at getting the La Sportiva Solutions, do these work for smearing at all or are they just better for the steep, overhanging walls with small feet and pockets?
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jakedatc
Sep 9, 2008, 6:43 PM
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Valarc wrote: petsfed wrote: Smearing performance is more a question of how soft the shoe is, and thus how easily you can paste it into irregularities in the rock. Most severely downturned shoes are too stiff to provide good smearing. I've also found it depends on the rubber as much as the toe shape. In my experience, the rubber used on most sportiva shoes sucks ass for smearing compared to the much softer rubber on many five ten shoes. Edit: I guess what we said sounds similar - what I was trying to say is, there are two kinds of "stiff"... a stiff last, and stiff rubber. A stiff last with softer rubber will still probably smear better than a soft last with stiff rubber. I personally find the rubber even on soft lasted sportiva shoes to suck for smearing.
Totally subjective.. Beth Rodden and Tommy used sportivas to free the Nose. Didn't see them slipping whlie on the Great Roof pitch smears.
I think people get it in their head that one brand is stickier than another and it psyches them out and they can't help but fail.
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jakedatc
Sep 9, 2008, 6:45 PM
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boulderflasher wrote: I'm looking at getting the La Sportiva Solutions, do these work for smearing at all or are they just better for the steep, overhanging walls with small feet and pockets?
What type of smearing are we talking? full on slab pitches? They will be uncomfortable. Once in a while slab boulders, top outs, stemmy sections? They should do fine. They are built to be used on overhangs and vert
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petsfed
Sep 9, 2008, 6:49 PM
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Valarc wrote: petsfed wrote: Smearing performance is more a question of how soft the shoe is, and thus how easily you can paste it into irregularities in the rock. Most severely downturned shoes are too stiff to provide good smearing. I've also found it depends on the rubber as much as the toe shape. In my experience, the rubber used on most sportiva shoes sucks ass for smearing compared to the much softer rubber on many five ten shoes. Edit: I guess what we said sounds similar - what I was trying to say is, there are two kinds of "stiff"... a stiff last, and stiff rubber. A stiff last with softer rubber will still probably smear better than a soft last with stiff rubber. I personally find the rubber even on soft lasted sportiva shoes to suck for smearing.
And I'm convinced that the only reason my moccs smear better than my Muiras is because the moccs are so floppy that I can tie them in knots. I've never noticed a real rubber difference, even after resoling the Muiras with C4 (I'm going back to the XSV because it lasts longer, with no performance loss).
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captromalley
Sep 9, 2008, 6:51 PM
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One thing I have to say about this subject is to always be well aware of the "style" of climbing to be done. One trip we made to our local crag was almost ruined because we arrived only to find it on fire. Luckily there is another excellent spot to go climbing down the road, the only downside is it was heavy duty slab climbing vs. the overhanging routes I planned on doing that day. Needless to say I only brought my Solutions and ended up putting far more wear on them in a few hours which a cheaper less aggresive shoe would have been fine for.
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patmay81
Sep 9, 2008, 7:08 PM
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jakedatc wrote: Valarc wrote: petsfed wrote: Smearing performance is more a question of how soft the shoe is, and thus how easily you can paste it into irregularities in the rock. Most severely downturned shoes are too stiff to provide good smearing. I've also found it depends on the rubber as much as the toe shape. In my experience, the rubber used on most sportiva shoes sucks ass for smearing compared to the much softer rubber on many five ten shoes. Edit: I guess what we said sounds similar - what I was trying to say is, there are two kinds of "stiff"... a stiff last, and stiff rubber. A stiff last with softer rubber will still probably smear better than a soft last with stiff rubber. I personally find the rubber even on soft lasted sportiva shoes to suck for smearing. Totally subjective.. Beth Rodden and Tommy used sportivas to free the Nose. Didn't see them slipping whlie on the Great Roof pitch smears. I think people get it in their head that one brand is stickier than another and it psyches them out and they can't help but fail.
I don't think its TOTALLY subjective. softer rubber will stick better on a smear. I have a pair of evolves that edge and smear great- its a soft rubber, the same goes for my madrocks. my sportivas don't smear worth crap- and they are the stiffest rubber I own. Its definitely not psychological, I cant climb hard slab and stemming pitches as well in my sportivas.
that being said, I don't think rubber type or shoe style will help anyone climb 4 grades harder. I'm pretty sure Rodden and Caldwell could free the nose barefoot or in nikes if they wanted, its only like a 5.11.
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jakedatc
Sep 9, 2008, 7:36 PM
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Uhh..
"Caldwell said he felt the Great Roof was 5.13c and the Changing Corners was about 5.14a. "
and only 3 people have done it... cuz it's SO easy...
do tell us more of your bomber knowledge 
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Sep 9, 2008, 7:36 PM)
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AlexCV
Sep 9, 2008, 7:48 PM
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patmay81 wrote: that being said, I don't think rubber type or shoe style will help anyone climb 4 grades harder. I'm pretty sure Rodden and Caldwell could free the nose barefoot or in nikes if they wanted, its only like a 5.11.
Hmm, the pitch he's referring to is 5.13+ according to the SuperTopo. There's a video of Tommy Caldwell freeing it and he's most definitely smearing...
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patmay81
Sep 9, 2008, 7:52 PM
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oh, I stand corrected. I didn't realize that there was any pitch that hard on the nose, obviously I'm no big wall guru. ok, rodden and caldwell probably couldn't do 5.13+ in nikes, but maybe barefoot!
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lodi5onu
Sep 10, 2008, 6:00 PM
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no, they're just for steep overhangs...you better get one La Sportiva Solution and one Mythos. That way you'll have the best of both worlds, cause if you pull over the roof and encounter a slab or crack crux, you're going to need to use the Mythos
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getoutmore
Sep 11, 2008, 2:01 PM
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Thanks all. I ordered the Boosters on a great sale of $81 and should be climbing in them this weekend.
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