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captromalley
Sep 25, 2008, 7:57 PM
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Just wondering how people feel about a rock gym with no supervision. Do many gyms do this. The gym I work at wants to do this for a few members who show they are "competent" enough to be on their own. Just seems sketchy and probably against insurance policy to allow.
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dingus
Sep 25, 2008, 8:10 PM
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I'm curious, what does 'no supervision' mean exactly?
No gym employees present in the gym? Or off tending to other matters, but in the gym?
Just curious is all. I WOULD join a gym like that. I don't care to be nannied by teenagers anyway.
DMT
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captromalley
Sep 25, 2008, 10:25 PM
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Well this is a gym that is an actual workout gym with a pool, weights, locker rooms, daycare, and rockwall. No supervision means no one in the rock wall area. I understand what you mean about "no teenager telling you what to do" but at the same time who is to say the person climbing is truly capable of being left alone. Also, It is not a expansive wall which means people will get tired of what is down their and start doing things you shouldn't(you know , all the stuff everyone does at a gym when the staff is around)
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dingus
Sep 25, 2008, 10:32 PM
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My local gym has a similar setp - a 3 station auto-belayed climbing wall.
These folks didn't know anything about running a climbing wall, and of course had no experience running a climbing gym (which theirs isn't).
When they first opened it up, after a cursory check I was on my own.
I LOVED IT!
I could do lap after lap after lap - I'd do like 30 or 40 laps a session. I could do goofy things at the top like reach up to grab a roof beam and then hand upside down by my feet - they just didn't seem to know any better or care.
Then some doofus climbed up a ways and fell off, nawmean? Forgot to or chose not to clip in. Fell and got hurt.
This isn't a national chain of gyms but they do own several in our metropolitan area - a multi-million $ establishment.
So anyway, the fallout net net was this... when their insurance company got wind of the hurt 'climber' they came and investigated and found all sorts of problems; procedures, equip maintenance, supervision, etc.
They instituted a new policy requiring a gym employee to be at the climbing wall at all times when someone is climbing.
This requirement is so onerous I stopped using the wall entirely, cept to climb with my daughter when she deigns to come to the gym with me.
So back to your original post? They will be fine until someone gets hurt and sues them. Then they will either go out of business or re-adopt more stringent rules.
DMT
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lena_chita
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Sep 26, 2008, 1:03 AM
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Our gym has members-only hours when there isn't anyone manning the front desk. The gym is officially closed during those hours-- a person off the street won't be able to climb during those hours. The implication being that if you are a member you know what to do and you don't need supervision.
It works quite well, IMO, but it is a relatively small place with relatively small group of climbers who fall into the category of people allowed to be in the gym after-hours, and most of them also happen to be people who work for the gym as belayers, who have been known to the owner of the gym for many years, etc.
I would not know how this affects the insurance. But as I said, the place I'm talking about is relatively small and "personal". I am not sure how it would work in a bigger gym where the management does not necessarily know every climber in the gym personally.
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sungam
Sep 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
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Once at the gym I go to one of the regulars answered the phone since the on-duty staff was halfway up his project and told me not to lower him till he sent it.
The regular said that they were having technical difficulties, bear with us, the staff sent, lowered off, and answered still tied in.
Good times, and a great gym.
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shockabuku
Sep 26, 2008, 2:04 PM
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One of the two gyms I climb at is also a regular type gym. There are hours, generally morning, when the wall is not staffed and roped climbing is not allowed but bouldering is.
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markc
Sep 26, 2008, 4:05 PM
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It's a different model, but I'm aware of one climbing coop that has 24 hour access for members, as well as open hours for non-members. I'd imagine their structure as a cooperative has a lot to do with that policy and their liability.
I'm curious to know the safety routine for use of a rock wall in a standard gym. How are people being checked out and monitored currently? Does the staff actually have climbing experience, or do they just have a checklist that they're reviewing?
In theory, I think most climbers would love unsupervised access. In many gyms the regulars are probably getting little more than a cursory glance as it is. It's the screening process that would be really important. If pools can get away with "No Lifeguard on Duty" signs (which I love, by the way), it seems you should be able to work out something.
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kletter1mann
Sep 27, 2008, 3:34 PM
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dingus wrote: >>>snip<<< Then some doofus climbed up a ways and fell off, nawmean? Forgot to or chose not to clip in. Fell and got hurt. >>>snip<<< So back to your original post? They will be fine until someone gets hurt and sues them. Then they will either go out of business or re-adopt more stringent rules.DMT
DMT is absolutely right. He;s also right about the insurance guys. If you can find an insurance carrier that would allow this, it suggests that they aren't really in the climbing market and don't really understand what's going on. The carriers that do insure climbing operations will want to see an operations manual, training materials etc. Beyond that, unattended autobelays are notorious for people forgetting to clip in. It seems hard to believe, but it's happened again and again. yet another reason to be concerned... Run away as fast as you can.
-Dave,
http://www.climbrockclub.com
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Senate156
Sep 27, 2008, 4:21 PM
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I recently switched gyms and my new gym is much more serious. However, by serious I mean much more dedicated/hardcore. Sure, there's almost always someone at the front desk, but from the front desk you can't see any of the climbing walls. of course there's a huge waiver that you have to sign to climb, but yeah, nobody really watches the walls at all. Even yesterday, when there was a birthday party of 11-12yr old kids.
The only times they'll come out are when they're working on some problem, or to gauge your skill level...not in terms of safety, but in terms of whether or not u present a challenge to them and their abilities.
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altelis
Sep 27, 2008, 4:33 PM
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Senate156 wrote: The only times they'll come out are when they're working on some problem, or to gauge your skill level...not in terms of safety, but in terms of whether or not u present a challenge to them and their abilities.
they, aren't by chance, your typical gymclimbera teenagiferous, sub species knowitalliforia?
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Senate156
Sep 27, 2008, 5:01 PM
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hahaha precisely except these are the slightly more evolved midtweentiesiferous knowitalliforia
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altelis
Sep 27, 2008, 5:05 PM
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they may just be the worst of the bunch
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drm1st
Sep 27, 2008, 11:49 PM
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Supervision or no supervision, all I have to say is that you can't fix stupid....Take that anyway you want. 
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captromalley
Sep 28, 2008, 2:28 PM
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Cool well thanks for all the feedback. The whole forgetting to clip in thing has happened here twice and is actually suprisingly easy for people to do on autobelay.
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