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clee03m
Dec 14, 2008, 6:26 PM
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I think "climb like a girl" does not have a bad ring like for other sports. I agree the phrase betters lends to beginner/intermediate climbers. I think it usually means climbing with good technique including foot work instead of muscling your way through a problem. It does not mean one style vs. other, I don't think. Even on a pretty steep route, a beginner dude with ginormous mucles can pretty much campus up a boulder problem while a beginner girl usually need to learn to use her feet and turn her body. So at least for me, it has not had a bad ring to the phrase. But that may be because people generally know that I tend to hiss and spit when I encounter un-P.C.-ness.
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uhoh
Dec 15, 2008, 1:09 AM
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curt wrote: granite_grrl wrote: What does climb like a girl really mean? To me, it suggests climbing like Lynn Hill. I'm still working at it.  Curt
Curt gets a sex change?
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timstich
Dec 15, 2008, 1:39 AM
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I don't know dudes and dames, but I'm never going to say things like this to my daughter. To me it just typifies the wedge driving between what people assume women can do and men can do. Fact is, both men and women benefit from the techniques you are mentioning. Calling that "girl climbing" is needlessly divisive. But that's perhaps taking it too seriously. If you are just being goofy, well carry on.
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acacongua
Dec 15, 2008, 2:34 PM
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timstich wrote: To me it just typifies the wedge driving between what people assume women can do and men can do.
I thought of this too - that the phrase can indicate division, but it could also say that climbing isn't just for men - especially hard climbing. It's probably more of a tongue-in-cheek phrase to bring ladies together.
But man, I would love to get ahold of the clinic paraphanalia to give to my guy friends who are known for their climbing finesse.
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acacongua
Dec 15, 2008, 2:42 PM
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Here's an essay on the exact topic we're discussing: http://inscribe.iupress.org/doi/abs/10.2979/HYP.2008.23.1.9?cookieSet=1&journalCode=hyp
I don't have a subscription though to access the essay though. Anyone?
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lwilson
Dec 15, 2008, 3:38 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: I bring this up because after breaking my leg and pelvis my legs were weak and I started concentrating on overhangs which requires a lot less work with your legs. This is generally not an angle which many women who climb in the 5.10 range (which I did at the time) do well at and feel I really had to change my climbing style.
I am curious, how long ago did you have your breaks? I've had similar injuries, and at this point (its been several years) I feel like I climb 'like a girl', meaning more flexible moves, more footwork...
and actually in reference to the more overhanging stuff, I am definitely on my feet and use my core more, which I would also say is more of a female style. I don't know if this helps, but I guess what I am saying is, whatever your natural style is, that will eventually work its way back into your routine.
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camhead
Dec 15, 2008, 4:01 PM
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acacongua wrote: timstich wrote: To me it just typifies the wedge driving between what people assume women can do and men can do. I thought of this too - that the phrase can indicate division, but it could also say that climbing isn't just for men - especially hard climbing. It's probably more of a tongue-in-cheek phrase to bring ladies together. But man, I would love to get ahold of the clinic paraphanalia to give to my guy friends who are known for their climbing finesse.
It is definitely tongue-in-cheek, but the phrase means so much because it takes words that are derogatory in most fields (throw like a girl, run like a girl), and actually turns them into a compliment for climbing. Every male climber that I know, including myself, would be pysched to be told "you climb like a girl."
However, there are times when climbing like a girl is not enough. Both Alex Puccio and Lisa Rands, for example, stand out for their ability to succeed on what many would call "guy climbs," upper body, dynamic, power-intensive problems.
My wife is able to climb like a girl up many routes, using intelligent footwork, body positioning, and straight arm technique, but sometimes she finds that there is a move that requires campusing, throwing, or lockoff strength, and she is able to pull these tricks out when she needs to, and is quite good at it, due to small body size and high strength-to-weight ratio.
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notapplicable
Dec 15, 2008, 7:17 PM
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My current favorite climbing styles would be vertical faces on gear and slab, so it would appear that I've been specifically training myself to climb like a girl for the last several years.
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hyhuu
Dec 16, 2008, 1:21 AM
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Good climbers, male or female, all look more or less the same too me. They all have good techniques, fluid movement etc. The grunting and screaming sound however are somewhat different.
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asiaclimber
Dec 16, 2008, 6:59 AM
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I used to always tell my g-friend to climb like more like a girl. she would always try and bully her way up stuff. I think it was because she always climbed with me and had essentially started climbing with me so she would watch how i would do something and then try to repeat. This turned out to be a good thing for me. Being 6'(+1" ape index) 155lbs almost all of which is in my back shoulders and forearms. Pulling threw stuff and skipping holds was just easier for me then getting fancy. My girl on the other hand is about 5'5" and 110lbs. She wasn't progressing in her climbing and was generally upset that we climbed just as much and i was way stronger then she was. So i started climbing lower grades again, I started going back to climbs she hadn't finished yet and climbing them with out extending my arms using every hold no more dead points or dyno's and low and be hold 4 things happened A. I was able to give her bata that worked for her B. I developed really freaking good foot work C. I am climbing much harder now because not only do i have great reach great power to weight ratio but i also have great foot work the key ingredient i never had before D. my girl is climbing much harder now
I think saying someone climbs like a girl is a bit of a compliment. To me it means they keep there hips into the wall have good foot work and it looks like they are doing ballet in the vertical world.
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Maddhatter
Dec 16, 2008, 7:03 PM
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That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be?
Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy. Put what ever spin you like on it. If a guy you don't know says it, he is still being a Dick. And by the way just as many young boys have just as good of foot work as the young girls. The term is in no way a "good"
thing. Unless used in a group that has a different then normal meaning for it. I myself try not to use it.
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chadnsc
Dec 16, 2008, 8:02 PM
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That must be just your climbing partners their Madd. If someone were to climb in a weak fashion or give up easily it's "You're climbing like a wuss".
The phrase "Climb like a girl" is used in my community as basic beta meaning use better technique.
"I can't seem to get past this blank dihedral!" -climber having some trouble
"Well climb like a girl then." -belayer
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jakedatc
Dec 16, 2008, 8:47 PM
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hyhuu wrote: Good climbers, male or female, all look more or less the same too me. They all have good techniques, fluid movement etc. The grunting and screaming sound however are somewhat different.
I disagree.. most of the pro climbers all have their own style and they are definitely not all smooth. Sharma and Jason Kehl tend to be really dynamic.. could care less about their feet most of the time lots of power and yelling. Graham, Pringle, Paul Robinson,tommy caldwell etc are much better at scoping routes and use alot more body tension, foot work, heel/toe hooks, drop knees. Daniel woods, Matt Bosely, ty landman tend to be a bit in the middle.. mixing in dynamic stuff when needed but not relying on it.
on the ladies side Alex puccio and lisa rands.. even little Cicada Jenerik(sp?) are powerful.. aggressive. They all have the ability to get delicate when it's called for.. ie Gaia for Rands but they can also pull out the steep comp style routes too. Then you have Lynn Hill, Beth Rodden, katie brown.. tend to be the technique style... which makes sense since they trend towards the hard trad routes. Tho Lynn just sent Chablanke V12 down in Hueco which is pretty powerful stuff though not foot cutting steep.
it's fun to go on Momentum video and watch Angie Payne's way to do Jitterbug Perfume v11 then watch Paul Robinson and Daniel woods beta..
http://www.momentumvm.com/cms/?initVidURL=197
http://www.momentumvm.com/cms/?initVidURL=34
so... for the original question.. i think the term is a bit out dated.
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camhead
Dec 16, 2008, 9:25 PM
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jakedatc wrote: ... on the ladies side Alex puccio and lisa rands.. even little Cicada Jenerik(sp?) are powerful.. aggressive.
dude, I just said that a few posts above.
good videos, though.
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jakedatc
Dec 16, 2008, 11:15 PM
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I know.. i was using them as examples to counterpoint the technical climbers :)
could add Kate Reese and Lizzy Asher to the burly crew
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clausti
Dec 17, 2008, 12:47 AM
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Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy.
i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy.
climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT
I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect.
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dingus
Dec 17, 2008, 1:34 AM
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clausti wrote: I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect.
Yes of course. Its the highest form of climbing compliment in our household - aside from "On Belay!"
DMT
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Maddhatter
Dec 17, 2008, 4:58 PM
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clausti wrote: Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy. i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy. climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect.
So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right?
I think your just a full blown sexist.
IF what you say is true then all young girls should out climb all young boys. right? We all know that the young girls always climb harder then the boys. right?
Sexism is sexism EVEN IF YOUR A WOMAN.
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camhead
Dec 17, 2008, 5:16 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: clausti wrote: Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy. i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy. climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect. So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right? I think your just a full blown sexist. IF what you say is true then all young girls should out climb all young boys. right? We all know that the young girls always climb harder then the boys. right? Sexism is sexism EVEN IF YOUR A WOMAN.
logic fail.
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wonderwoman
Dec 17, 2008, 5:18 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: clausti wrote: Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy.i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy. climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect. So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right? I think your just a full blown sexist. IF what you say is true then all young girls should out climb all young boys. right? We all know that the young girls always climb harder then the boys. right? Sexism is sexism EVEN IF YOUR A WOMAN.
I think she is correctly pointing out that so far you are the only person posting here who thinks the term 'climb like a girl' is negative and means giving up, weakness, poor skill or fear. Maybe you should reflect on the stuff in your quote that I just put in bold. Most people that I know think the opposite, and that's also seems to be the general consensus of this thread.
(This post was edited by wonderwoman on Dec 17, 2008, 5:27 PM)
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Maddhatter
Dec 17, 2008, 5:38 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: Maddhatter wrote: clausti wrote: Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy.i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy. climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect. So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right? I think your just a full blown sexist. IF what you say is true then all young girls should out climb all young boys. right? We all know that the young girls always climb harder then the boys. right? Sexism is sexism EVEN IF YOUR A WOMAN. I think she is correctly pointing out that so far you are the only person posting here who thinks the term 'climb like a girl' is negative and means giving up, weakness, poor skill or fear. Maybe you should reflect on the stuff in your quote that I just put in bold. Most people that I know think the opposite, and that's also seems to be the general consensus of this thread.
Yea ok, and a black dude calling his bro the N word makes the N word a good word. Fine I'll stop now go back to your "girls climb better the men" posts.
Like i said to start with they climb DIFFERENT at first not better.
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wonderwoman
Dec 17, 2008, 5:41 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: wonderwoman wrote: Maddhatter wrote: clausti wrote: Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy.i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy. climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect. So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right? I think your just a full blown sexist. IF what you say is true then all young girls should out climb all young boys. right? We all know that the young girls always climb harder then the boys. right? Sexism is sexism EVEN IF YOUR A WOMAN. I think she is correctly pointing out that so far you are the only person posting here who thinks the term 'climb like a girl' is negative and means giving up, weakness, poor skill or fear. Maybe you should reflect on the stuff in your quote that I just put in bold. Most people that I know think the opposite, and that's also seems to be the general consensus of this thread. Yea ok, and a black dude calling his bro the N word makes the N word a good word. Fine I'll stop now go back to your "girls climb better the men" posts. Like i said to start with they climb DIFFERENT at first not better.
Like I said, I think you need to reflect a little bit. None of us were being derogatory to one another or about the term "Climb Like a Girl".
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upintheair
Dec 17, 2008, 5:47 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right?
When I first started climbing, my boyfriend jokingly told me I climbed like a boy. (Back then, I had been weightlifing a lot and could do a set of 8 chin-ups, but could barely campus my butt up a 5.8 sport climb.) And yeah, I don't think he meant it as a good thing.
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Maddhatter
Dec 17, 2008, 5:51 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: Maddhatter wrote: wonderwoman wrote: Maddhatter wrote: clausti wrote: Maddhatter wrote: That is not at all what it means. It is just what you want it to mean. It is still a put down. Should it be? Well, no. When MOST people use it it means your climbing badly or giving up way to easy.i totally disagree with this. i have never heard someone use the phrase climb like a girl to mean not doing well or giving up too easy. climbing like a little bitch, i've heard to mean the above. sand in your vagina, seen to mean the above. pussy, ect. there are plenty of all purpose misogynistic insults that are in all sports, BUT I agree with those who have already said that the thing with "climb like a girl" is that it means something positive in contrast to most sport were [blank] like a girl is derogatory. it generally refers to footwork (girls' is usually superior) balance, flexibility, ect. So in other words if I said a young chick climbed like a dude that would be a bad thing right? I think your just a full blown sexist. IF what you say is true then all young girls should out climb all young boys. right? We all know that the young girls always climb harder then the boys. right? Sexism is sexism EVEN IF YOUR A WOMAN. I think she is correctly pointing out that so far you are the only person posting here who thinks the term 'climb like a girl' is negative and means giving up, weakness, poor skill or fear. Maybe you should reflect on the stuff in your quote that I just put in bold. Most people that I know think the opposite, and that's also seems to be the general consensus of this thread. Yea ok, and a black dude calling his bro the N word makes the N word a good word. Fine I'll stop now go back to your "girls climb better the men" posts. Like i said to start with they climb DIFFERENT at first not better. Like I said, I think you need to reflect a little bit. None of us were being derogatory to one another or about the term "Climb Like a Girl".
hits like a girl
runs like a girl
jumps like a girl
All good? Maybe not.
I climb with women more then men and have NOTHING but respect for how they climb.
I just don't like the term "climbs like a girl"
Just say they "climb well".
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