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karcand
Dec 22, 2008, 4:24 AM
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I have a friend with OLD (15-20+ years) trad gear. He has replaced the material, but is the metal still good?
Also is it true about ropes and the 5 year rule? Even if it is unused? And webbing?
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justroberto
Dec 22, 2008, 4:45 AM
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Ditch anything soft (ropes, slings, webbing) without question. You can resling any of that stuff yourself or send it off somewhere to have it professionally done. Make a rug out of the rope. Anything on a wire should be fine, but i'd give it all a once over to make sure the wires aren't frayed. If he has cams, and neither of you have the experience to inspect them for problems, find someone who does. If you decide they're too untrustworthy, go into the Lab Forum and offer up some of it to be pull-tested. Once they break em, they'll tell you if you could have safely kept them or not.
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el_layclimber
Dec 22, 2008, 5:27 AM
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The longest fall I have ever taken was on a rope (well kept) that was about 17 years old, so there's that.
The again, the soft goods can't be that expensive to go ahead and replace, but to play the devil's advocate:
Most Americans clip in to a seatbelt that is somewhere between (roughly) 1 and 15 years old every day. It has gotten wet, had McDonald's french fry grease wiped on it, been in the sun repeatedly, and was likely exposed to whatever is sitting under the hood when you put your hands in there and got back in and drove off. Has anyone ever replaced a seat belt? You still trust the seatbelt with your life, and have never heard about a seat belt failing because it was too old.
Either: a) we are being overly cautious (which is okay and fun, because it means blowing disposable income at the local gear shop); b) everyone whose seat belt has saved them in an accident is unbelievably lucky; or c) we need to start making soft goods out of seatbelts because they are fucking truck.
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Lazlo
Dec 22, 2008, 5:27 AM
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coolcat83 wrote: justroberto wrote: Once they break em, they'll tell you if you could have safely kept them or not. and you'll be banging your head against the wall when you find out they were fine and didn't have to buy a new rack 
The way I hear it, some companies (all companies?) pull test gear to half it's strength when they resling it for you. Sounds like a good bet.
edit: cch only does this
(This post was edited by Lazlo on Dec 22, 2008, 6:44 AM)
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A-Bowl
Dec 22, 2008, 5:46 AM
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I seem to remember a load test on a bunch of random old gear and even the oldest carabiners and cams held to above their rated strength. I bought most of my cams used and still fall all over them. just double up sometimes in decking situations. oh, i bought my first rope used and heavily sun-faded and fell on that for 4 years... definitely more cautious with soft goods these days... think Todd skinner.
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irregularpanda
Dec 22, 2008, 6:26 AM
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karcand wrote: I have a friend with OLD (15-20+ years) trad gear. He has replaced the material, but is the metal still good? Also is it true about ropes and the 5 year rule? Even if it is unused? And webbing?
I know what to do with it, you should mail it to me.
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angry
Dec 22, 2008, 6:34 AM
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Lazlo wrote: coolcat83 wrote: justroberto wrote: Once they break em, they'll tell you if you could have safely kept them or not. and you'll be banging your head against the wall when you find out they were fine and didn't have to buy a new rack The way I hear it, some companies (all companies?) pull test gear to half it's strength when they resling it for you. Sounds like a good bet.
Only CCH
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Lazlo
Dec 22, 2008, 6:43 AM
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angry wrote: Lazlo wrote: coolcat83 wrote: justroberto wrote: Once they break em, they'll tell you if you could have safely kept them or not. and you'll be banging your head against the wall when you find out they were fine and didn't have to buy a new rack The way I hear it, some companies (all companies?) pull test gear to half it's strength when they resling it for you. Sounds like a good bet. Only CCH
ah...i recall that now
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acorneau
Dec 22, 2008, 5:22 PM
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el_layclimber wrote: The longest fall I have ever taken was on a rope (well kept) that was about 17 years old, so there's that.
Yeah, but the longest fall you've ever taken could have been only 3 feet!
In reply to: Most Americans clip in to a seatbelt that is somewhere between (roughly) 1 and 15 years old every day. ..... Has anyone ever replaced a seat belt? You still trust the seatbelt with your life, and have never heard about a seat belt failing because it was too old.
That a poor analogy: seat belts aren't loaded on a regular basis like climbing gear. If you get in a wreck and actually USE the seat belt then either your car gets scrapped or the repair shop is supposed to replace the seat belt.
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dingus
Dec 22, 2008, 5:48 PM
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acorneau wrote: el_layclimber wrote: The longest fall I have ever taken was on a rope (well kept) that was about 17 years old, so there's that. Yeah, but the longest fall you've ever taken could have been only 3 feet! In reply to: Most Americans clip in to a seatbelt that is somewhere between (roughly) 1 and 15 years old every day. ..... Has anyone ever replaced a seat belt? You still trust the seatbelt with your life, and have never heard about a seat belt failing because it was too old. That a poor analogy: seat belts aren't loaded on a regular basis like climbing gear. If you get in a wreck and actually USE the seat belt then either your car gets scrapped or the repair shop is supposed to replace the seat belt.
OMG!!!1111
Seatbelts are IN THE SUN!!!
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!111111111111
The boogeymen are coming!
THE BOOGEYMEN ARE COMING!!!1111
Old seatbelts, snapping like twigs, sending old people thru the windshields like geriatric missiles.
Its a fucking TRAGEDY.
Best get those seatbelts replaceed ASAP. Why take a chance?????????????
HUH????
DMT
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el_layclimber
Dec 22, 2008, 5:54 PM
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Interesting. I don't insist I am right, I am merely wondering out loud. Found this re: effects of cyclical (over)loading on webbing used in cargo transport.
1. A parameter for assessing the damage accumulated in a polymer material held under loading is proposed,
which makes it possible to evaluate the residual strength of a webbing at a known loading history.
2. Intense damage accumulation in the webbing under a constant load close to the breaking force (82% of the
ultimate breaking force) results in the loss of the load-carrying capacity within 840 s. In this case, damage accumulation occurs nonlinearly in time. Single loads close to the breaking force, but applied for a short period of time, do not deteriorate the strength of the webbing.
3. Cyclic loading of unitizing sling assemblies leads to a significant (up to 20%) reduction of the webbing
strength, which causes a decrease in the actual value of the sling safety factor.
4. It is expedient to perform design calculations of the lifting capacity for unitizing sling assemblies
considering the breaking force of the webbing tested after overloading.
5. Manufacturing defects in the propylene webbing, such as the mispicks of 1–2 weft yarns, have almost no
bearing on its static breaking strength.
"STRENGTH AND FAILURE OF SYNTHETIC WEBBING
OF UNITIZING SLING ASSEMBLIES IN THE INITIAL STATE
AND AFTER OVERLOADING"
(V. I. Skripchenko,a V. A. Strizhalo,b UDC
M. P. Zemtsov,a and M. V. Borodiia)
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Maddhatter
Dec 22, 2008, 7:19 PM
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Registered: Aug 28, 2008
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karcand wrote: I have a friend with OLD (15-20+ years) trad gear. He has replaced the material, but is the metal still good? Also is it true about ropes and the 5 year rule? Even if it is unused? And webbing?
How much cash do you have? I have gear older then some of the people on this site that I still use! LOL
Soild stem friends? safe? Let's just say I don't set them if I think I might be taking a big wipper. I use my ropes longer then most do but then they don't see a lot of "gym time" taking hit after hit time and time again. Webbing is cheap I replace it every year just to be safe. I don't just throw it away I make dog leashes and such with it. If your rich buy new gear and ropes every year. If your not? Well, Check it over before every climb and hope for the best.
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seatbeltpants
Dec 22, 2008, 7:35 PM
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el_layclimber wrote: we need to start making soft goods out of seatbelts because they are fucking truck.
eh up, right you are squire.
seatbeltpants
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justroberto
Dec 24, 2008, 12:55 AM
Post #15 of 21
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el_layclimber wrote: Interesting. I don't insist I am right, I am merely wondering out loud. Found this re: effects of cyclical (over)loading on webbing used in cargo transport. 1. A parameter for assessing the damage accumulated in a polymer material held under loading is proposed, which makes it possible to evaluate the residual strength of a webbing at a known loading history. 2. Intense damage accumulation in the webbing under a constant load close to the breaking force (82% of the ultimate breaking force) results in the loss of the load-carrying capacity within 840 s. In this case, damage accumulation occurs nonlinearly in time. Single loads close to the breaking force, but applied for a short period of time, do not deteriorate the strength of the webbing. 3. Cyclic loading of unitizing sling assemblies leads to a significant (up to 20%) reduction of the webbing strength, which causes a decrease in the actual value of the sling safety factor. 4. It is expedient to perform design calculations of the lifting capacity for unitizing sling assemblies considering the breaking force of the webbing tested after overloading. 5. Manufacturing defects in the propylene webbing, such as the mispicks of 1–2 weft yarns, have almost no bearing on its static breaking strength. "STRENGTH AND FAILURE OF SYNTHETIC WEBBING OF UNITIZING SLING ASSEMBLIES IN THE INITIAL STATE AND AFTER OVERLOADING" (V. I. Skripchenko,a V. A. Strizhalo,b UDC M. P. Zemtsov,a and M. V. Borodiia)
I'm not reading that. It probably wouldn't even make any sense if I did.
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marde
Dec 24, 2008, 12:18 PM
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el_layclimber wrote: ...still trust the seatbelt with your life, and have never heard about a seat belt failing because it was too old. Either: a) we are being overly cautious ....; b) everyone whose seat belt has saved them in an accident is unbelievably lucky; or c) we need to start making soft goods out of seatbelts because they are fucking truck.
Just climb on a 20mm rope, it'll be safe for the next 20 years or so
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iron106
Dec 24, 2008, 3:19 PM
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I think seat belts are made from polyester, which is not affected like nylon form the sun.
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MikeSaint
Dec 24, 2008, 10:25 PM
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So what you're saying is that I should resling my cams with seatbelts?
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Lazlo
Dec 25, 2008, 12:00 AM
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sungam wrote: MikeSaint wrote: So what you're saying is that I should resling my cams with seatbelts?  Do it! do it now!!!
Now?
But my slings are in like-new condition?
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sungam
Dec 25, 2008, 12:07 AM
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Lazlo wrote: sungam wrote: MikeSaint wrote: So what you're saying is that I should resling my cams with seatbelts? Do it! do it now!!! Now? But my slings are in like-new condition?
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