I have no fear of dogs nor children. Discourtesy from other climbers in the guise of loose dogs doesn't bother me in the least little bit.
Untethered kids don't bother me either.
But I understand and respect both those with a dislike or fear of dogs as well as those who feel the concept of courtesy from others revolves around their own needs and wants.
And I positively HATE shoveling dog shit from suburban back yards. The only thing possibly more lame would be having to shovel horse shit from a suburban backyard.\
I miss my dog. I don't miss his piles.
And my dog started a fight with another dog, at Jailhouse Rock, one morning. Just to get that confession out of the way, haha.
I don't care if folk bring dogs or kids to the crag.
DMT
The dogs are fine with me, but leave the kids at home.
I'm tired of these six year-olds hiking my projects...
J
That all sounds like something George Carlin might have said. RIP Geo!
Thanks HG. I didn't know that little dogs scared adults too! I'll keep that in mind.
I wonder if people would have the same problem with cats at the crag as they do dogs. Cat pee or dog pee? Hmmm Cat sh1t or dog sh1t? Maybe that was coyote crap I stepped in last week. Awe, might as well blame it on the dog owner anyways seeing I hate those clucking things. Sounds like a no brainer to me yet I'm not going to try to limit others freedoms. We don't have enough of them as it is!
I have a dog walking service, and meant a dog in general - wasn't referring to Teddy, specifically. And also - not just kids are afraid of dogs.
That said, I have probably seen people react that way mostly when I was with Teddy, but it could be simply that I am with him a lot more than any of the other dogs, and with him at opportunities where this would occur.
Teddy is a very interactive dog, and smart. People stop me on the street all the time and tell me he's winked at them, or is smiling at them. They are often quite adamant that it was more than him simply blinking or with his mouth open. So, I suppose that his engaging those he comes upon might have something to do with it.
As the owner of two dogs and babysitting a Pit puppy right now, you can tell I love dogs. At the same time, I'd rather not have them at the rock. It's just more of an aggravation than it's worth, IMO.
At the same time, if they are there, I'll treat them with kindness when possible. Friendly dogs are welcome, scary dogs know better than to screw with me. He won't be the first fight I've had with a dog and I've won every one I've had. He either knows or is one of those crazy sob's that needs to learn.
I don't take any of my dogs. Climbing is hard enough for me and I'm not going to add trouble to hard.
WhenI was climbing in Hawaii the owner of the gear shop on Oahu, Mike had a crag pig named "Jane" It was pretty cool and left you alone. But if you had any food or food reminants in you bagthen you had to hang it from a tree or put it up high because the pig would take your bag and run off with it.
Ya that thing is like 80 lbs now and it could probably run through a wall. Its huge!
RE" Traumatized by past incident - There are people who have a fear of dogs, whether it is from that awful incident mentioned above, or something so benign a person can't even know where it came from. the fact remains, they have a fear of dogs. ... I have found that by my showing I have my dog under control and that I acknowledge their situation, it helps a LOT.
Never belittle a person having such a reaction, if you're handling a dog. That is not helpful.
What I do, is shorten my leash up, guiding my dog right to my side. At the same time, I will say to the person in fear Don't worry; I have him."
Depending on their level of discomfort, I will adjust the level of show. Some kids really get so scared they might be peeing their pants. In a case like that, I will squat right to my dog, making myself at the same level. Right up there, holding the dog imobile.
I will then repeat the "I got him" and up the level with "I won't let him near you. You are okay." If someone in their group does the "It's just a little dog" BS, I will counter that. "I know how you feel. Don't worry. I've got him and won't let him near. We'll give you plenty of room."
In a case like that, I will hold my dog as they continue on their way. The kid WILL be looking back, because they are still afraid the dog will get them. What a relief, for them, to see me still holding the dog, not having left the spot, and acknowledging their fear again.
You would not believe the amazing results I have had with this. Children who were near tears - become visibly relieved. They smile at me.
I just wanted to take a moment to commend you for being this considerate. Those militant dog owners who say "deal with my dog or STFU" are the ones who ruin it for you and others like you who do recognize and respect that not everyone wants to be near your dog, and that its presence can truly negatively affect their experience if you don't step in and keep it well-behaved and under control. If more dog owners were like you, this thread probably wouldn't be necessary.
I find it laughable that people are resorting to the logic of "there are dog people and non-dog people" or "you just must not like dogs." No, people are simply annoyed by a lack of courtesy and if you're the dog owner, it is your lack of courtesy NOT the dog that causes the annoyance.
A lot of non-dog people don't want ANY dogs at the crags. They don't say "the dog owners with lack of courtesy ruin it for everyone", they say "you don't need a dog here, I don't like them, so there should be NO dogs at the crag." I think most dog-people understand there are bad owners and bad dogs that don't belong at the crag and that is the problem. A dog-person will say how do we keep the problem dogs/owners away, and the non-dog people say "let's just get rid of all of them."
I bet the poll is no different than a Zogby poll. 2/3 it is. I can say that I have only encountered two dogs that I felt uncomfortable near at the crag. I was on private property and they were the owners pit bulls. Who was I to say, "get that dog away from my Johnson!" At this point he was letting us climb. He could have told us to GET OUT! Great climbing it is too!!! Other than that I have not seen oodles of dog poop, had them EVER lay on my rope, or even bother me while I was belaying someone. Nose through my opened backpack? Sure, but that is just the nature of the beast. There are other things worth complaining about at the crag than a dog here or there. IMHO
Remember,whether you are confronted or not,two thirds of the people around you at the crag wish you'd left your dog at home.
1. 2/3 of rockclimbing.com people who clicked on the poll wish dogs were left at home. We don't know what the reality of the climbing public is.
2. I don't care if 2/3 of people want to limit what I can do when it doesn't affect them significantly. They can stand to look at my dog. If my dog sat on your rope, barked, bit, etc. then I wouldn't bring them.
3. I haven't brought a dog to the crag in about 7 years. The dogs I have now would have to be leashed and supervised, not a problem for anyone else because I would be responsible, but less fun for me. But I brought my old dog all the time.
4. I guess that means 1/3 of us hope everyone who has a dog that is appropriate to bring to the crag and takes responsibility for their dog brings it to the crag! Please bring your good dogs, I enjoy seeing them.
(This post was edited by glowering on Feb 19, 2009, 10:37 PM)
In my experience I have seen hundreds of dogs at the crags. I have only seen a problem twice.
Both times it was at a multipitch area where people just left their dogs on the ground while they climbed away from the area, to return later after the descent. That is LAME, ILLEGAL, and SELFISH
Does that mean the hundreds of other dogs I have seen that were having a great time and not significantly affecting anyone else shouldn't be allowed?
I find it laughable that people are resorting to the logic of "there are dog people and non-dog people" or "you just must not like dogs." No, people are simply annoyed by a lack of courtesy and if you're the dog owner, it is your lack of courtesy NOT the dog that causes the annoyance.
A lot of non-dog people don't want ANY dogs at the crags. They don't say "the dog owners with lack of courtesy ruin it for everyone", they say "you don't need a dog here, I don't like them, so there should be NO dogs at the crag." I think most dog-people understand there are bad owners and bad dogs that don't belong at the crag and that is the problem. A dog-person will say how do we keep the problem dogs/owners away, and the non-dog people say "let's just get rid of all of them."
Were you trying to prove my point? The world is not divided into dog and non-dog people.
Someone who has never owned a dog and doesn't like them is a non-dog person. They will be much more likely to want to ban all dogs at the crags, instead of wanting to do something about the minority of dogs/owners that cause a problem.
And dude, what the hell were you doing registering at rockclimbing.com on 9/11/2001?
Of course just like almost every topic there is a continuum between the two positions. But how much someone is a dog-person or not is going to have a huge influence on how they feel about dogs at the crags.
My point is that many of the people who don't like dogs don't want to compromise, they don't want any dogs at the crags no matter if they cause a problem or not.
When I was a dog owner I had very little patience for dog haters. I frankly didn't care, for a long time, if other climbers disliked the presence of my pooch or not. There was nothing, at that time, anyone could have said or done to change my mind (brute force ways).
I had run ins with rangers at Knights Ferry for allowing my dogs to roam as I bouldered.
My dog started a fight with a sport climbing dog at Jailhouse rock.
My dog growled threatenly at a climber I knew. Now this was the only person EVER the dog growled out - I was convined the dude was a serial killer (the kind who likes to take out organs and examine them) and thus I patted ole Billy Bob on the head, good dog!
But gradually, over time, listening in on conversatons like this, and coming to understand just how afraid some people are of canines, I came to understand my behavior was very anti-social and basically unacceptable.
It took me a while to come around. By the time I did my dog was an Old Dog, no threat to even the neighborhood stray cat. Plus he couldn't hike trails so good no more, so it was an easy decision.
If I got another dog it would be smaller and it WOULD BE a crag dog too, albeit better trained and more managable.
But I STILL WOULDN'T CARE if a dog hater at the crag was put off by my dog.
Sorry. But its true. Dogs and humans go together. There is really little purpose in getting a dog if you're just going to leave it in the backyard all the time. GET A POTTED PLANT INSTEAD.
Dogs belong with their masters. The dog expects it too. Its aprt of the bond between human and dog - our species have been shaped by one another and there is nothing a dog hater is ever going to say to change that situation.
Sorry.
But that's just the way it is. You will have to resort to THE LAW to get your way.
When I was a dog owner I had very little patience for dog haters. I frankly didn't care, for a long time, if other climbers disliked the presence of my pooch or not. There was nothing, at that time, anyone could have said or done to change my mind (brute force ways).
I had run ins with rangers at Knights Ferry for allowing my dogs to roam as I bouldered.
My dog started a fight with a sport climbing dog at Jailhouse rock.
My dog growled threatenly at a climber I knew. Now this was the only person EVER the dog growled out - I was convined the dude was a serial killer (the kind who likes to take out organs and examine them) and thus I patted ole Billy Bob on the head, good dog!
But gradually, over time, listening in on conversatons like this, and coming to understand just how afraid some people are of canines, I came to understand my behavior was very anti-social and basically unacceptable.
It took me a while to come around. By the time I did my dog was an Old Dog, no threat to even the neighborhood stray cat. Plus he couldn't hike trails so good no more, so it was an easy decision.
If I got another dog it would be smaller and it WOULD BE a crag dog too, albeit better trained and more managable.
But I STILL WOULDN'T CARE if a dog hater at the crag was put off by my dog.
Sorry. But its true. Dogs and humans go together. There is really little purpose in getting a dog if you're just going to leave it in the backyard all the time. GET A POTTED PLANT INSTEAD.
Dogs belong with their masters. The dog expects it too. Its aprt of the bond between human and dog - our species have been shaped by one another and there is nothing a dog hater is ever going to say to change that situation.
Sorry.
But that's just the way it is. You will have to resort to THE LAW to get your way.
DMT
Fuck yeah, dude. Well put and you didn't even have to resort to kicking small children in the head like I did.
By the way, you poll rattlers, I haven't even voted in your farce. Although, I did vote for Kodos.
My point is that many of the people who don't like dogs don't want to compromise, they don't want any dogs at the crags no matter if they cause a problem or not.
You do understand that the reverse is also true, don't you? Many of the people who do like dogs don't want to compromise. They do want dogs at the crags no matter if they cause a problem or not. If your point is that you believe being uncompromising is bad, know that there are some "dog people" who are just as uncompromising as the people you criticize.
If there isn't a law against them being there, then the "non-dog people" will have to accept Spot's presence. But the dog owners who do decide to bring Spot along should have enough *@#$ courtesy to give a @#% whether Spot is a pain in the @#%.
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