|
acorneau
Feb 24, 2009, 7:01 PM
Post #26 of 51
(1020 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
irw13 wrote: hah, and I thought a waterknot would be fairly secure. It's what we used to mak slings out of webbing when I took a course.
Yes, the water knot is the preferred knot for tying webbing together. Technically, I think the water knot's strength retention is somewhere around 60-65%, but I can't find my cheat sheet right now.
In reply to: now knowing what you said, what would happen if i used the same configuration, but replace the water knots with an overhand on a bight?
Think about it: overhand on a bight and a water knot are the same basic knot, so the strength reduction is the same.
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Feb 24, 2009, 7:48 PM
Post #27 of 51
(1005 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
I should also suggest that if you're going to be setting up lots of top-rope anchors in different areas/situations then a 75'-100' of static rope will make your life a lot easier.
Some reading:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=2037275;page=unread
|
|
|
|
|
iron106
Feb 24, 2009, 8:41 PM
Post #28 of 51
(993 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 7, 2008
Posts: 213
|
I agree the static is much more useful and easier.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Feb 24, 2009, 8:44 PM
Post #29 of 51
(991 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
one 20 and two 15 footer
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Feb 25, 2009, 12:26 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
Feb 24, 2009, 9:43 PM
Post #30 of 51
(970 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
currupt4130 wrote: So you want to tri load a biner? Bad idea. Just girth hitch the tree or boulder with webbing through a loop.
How the hell is that tri loading?
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
Feb 24, 2009, 9:45 PM
Post #31 of 51
(968 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
irw13 wrote: rockforlife wrote: irw13 wrote: rockforlife wrote: irw13 wrote: Hmm.. this got me thinking. How about skip the biner, run the bitter end of the webbing through the loop and tie another water knot loop. Clip the biner to there and run the rope through it. Sound good to you? NO Slightly confused. I thought that this with a second, similarly set up anchor would be secure. Where's the failure point here? If i undersand you right you wanted to run webbing on webbing? This is a bad idea. To me it doesn't seem like it would be too far off from running a girth hitch with a sling, only that there's only a single length going around the anchor point instead of double. So, I'm still a bit confused. Here's a rough drawing of what I'm talking about. [IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/IRW13/anchor.jpg[/IMG]
I post another picture but yes you have the right idea.
|
|
|
|
|
currupt4130
Feb 24, 2009, 11:26 PM
Post #32 of 51
(947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 515
|
krosbakken wrote: currupt4130 wrote: So you want to tri load a biner? Bad idea. Just girth hitch the tree or boulder with webbing through a loop. How the hell is that tri loading?
When you cinch the set up tight to load it, you are pulling on the biner in two directions, correct? Well when you pull the biner in those two directions it also gets forced against the tree/rock/whatever. Forcing it against the object tries to bend the biner across its spine.
To be cyclically loading the biner (top rope falls, lowering, stopping, etc) across the spine like that is a bad idea, you're asking for trouble. It probably won't break, but I wouldn't do it. I'm not usually paranoid or redundant to the millionth power, but that's one thing I avoid.
(This post was edited by currupt4130 on Feb 24, 2009, 11:32 PM)
|
|
Attachments:
|
tri load.JPG
(14.9 KB)
|
|
|
|
|
Tree_wrangler
Feb 24, 2009, 11:38 PM
Post #33 of 51
(938 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 403
|
In reply to: 75'-100' of static rope will make your life a lot easier.
This.
As far as webbing goes, I usually have either a whole spool available, or 60', give or take at the bottom of my pack (if I'm not anywhere near the car), as well as a decent knife to custom cut whatever I need. In addition to that, I usually have 3-5 short daisy-chains of webbing precut and tied for leaving behind at rap stations.
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
Feb 24, 2009, 11:55 PM
Post #34 of 51
(933 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
Alright. I see your point, well put.
But how my picture is, the carabiner doesn't pull directly onto the tree, it may touch it a little but not enough to tri load it as you are saying.
Im going to post some more pic.
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
Feb 25, 2009, 12:50 AM
Post #36 of 51
(920 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
Alright, this is a picture of what Im thinking and I think your thinking this too.
Notice the top left of this picture where there is no carabiner.( in case you don't have a ton to spare)
I just did this the other weekend ice climbing.
When I rapped I used this same set up, like the top right.(webbing with a carabiner) but just with two trees.
I hope this is all clear to you. 
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/andrew_k/106363796
|
|
|
|
|
lagwagonpcp
Feb 25, 2009, 1:30 AM
Post #37 of 51
(907 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 84
|
i agree with majid and chossmonkey, they didnt have exactly the same answer but they were good ones.
as someone else said webbing is cheap, you will use it. i have tons of the stuff. even when i dont plan on using it i carry some(30-60ft untied) just incase i need it.
|
|
|
|
|
currupt4130
Feb 25, 2009, 1:49 AM
Post #38 of 51
(901 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 515
|
krosbakken wrote: Alright. I see your point, well put. But how my picture is, the carabiner doesn't pull directly onto the tree, it may touch it a little but not enough to tri load it as you are saying. Im going to post some more pic.
I'll agree, you just have to be carefull how you rig it.
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Feb 25, 2009, 3:47 AM
Post #39 of 51
(888 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
Tree_wrangler wrote: In reply to: 75'-100' of static rope will make your life a lot easier. This.
This?!?
What is... This?!?
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
Feb 25, 2009, 3:50 AM
Post #40 of 51
(886 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
lagwagonpcp wrote: as someone else said webbing is cheap, you will use it. i have tons of the stuff. even when i dont plan on using it i carry some(30-60ft untied) just incase i need it.
Well said, I like how you worded it.
|
|
|
|
|
Tree_wrangler
Feb 25, 2009, 2:26 PM
Post #41 of 51
(872 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 403
|
In reply to: Tree_wrangler wrote:In reply to:75'-100' of static rope will make your life a lot easier. This. This?!? What is... This?!?
I'll bet, that out of 65 views of my post at the time of this writing, that you're the ONLY ONE who didn't get what I meant.
I was agreeing with you.
(This post was edited by Tree_wrangler on Feb 25, 2009, 2:28 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
brianri
Feb 25, 2009, 3:23 PM
Post #42 of 51
(855 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 126
|
I third the motion on static rope. It is much easier and faster to equalize and set-up. It is more expensive than webbing but you will be glad you invested in it if you regularly set up top ropes.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Feb 25, 2009, 3:40 PM
Post #43 of 51
(853 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
Just for a counter-point, I prefer webbing. it's cheaper and packs more easily. I have friends that have static, and in general I haven't noticed a great difference in set-up times.
My set-up is similar to the girth-hitch method up-stream. Rig off both trees, toss the webbing ends to the cliff line, even them up where you want them, tie off and clip your biners. As far as webbing on webbing contact, there's no real motion in the system. I've used this method for quite some time, and have never found damage as a result. Even with the strength reduction from overhand knots, this system is sufficiently strong for forces toproping will generate.
Just for full disclosure, another nice thing about static line is its greater abrasion resistance. A lot of folks encase the standard friction points in 1" tubular, which further extends the life of the rope. Both certainly work, I think it comes down to personal preference.
|
|
|
|
|
currupt4130
Feb 25, 2009, 4:30 PM
Post #44 of 51
(841 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 515
|
brianri wrote: I third the motion on static rope. It is much easier and faster to equalize and set-up. It is more expensive than webbing but you will be glad you invested in it if you regularly set up top ropes.
If you can reasonably get your ends close, you can just adjust the girth hitch on the tree or rock by sliding it around to take up slack. It cinches back on itself and makes equalizing super quick. I can set up most routes in less than 5 minutes.
|
|
|
|
|
brianri
Feb 25, 2009, 4:46 PM
Post #45 of 51
(836 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 126
|
In reply to: If you can reasonably get your ends close, you can just adjust the girth hitch on the tree or rock by sliding it around to take up slack. It cinches back on itself and makes equalizing super quick. I can set up most routes in less than 5 minutes.
I used webbing for years. If the tree is 20 or 30 feet back then you have to walk back adjust the girth hitch then check it out at the cliff again to make sure it is equalized then walk back again to the tree if it is not. This can go on and on. There is nothing wrong with using webbing and if you are on a budget it is a third of the price but I set up top-ropes with a lot of my friends who use webbing and I beat them on set up time everytime. Want to race? :-)
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Feb 25, 2009, 5:21 PM
Post #46 of 51
(829 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
brianri wrote: In reply to: If you can reasonably get your ends close, you can just adjust the girth hitch on the tree or rock by sliding it around to take up slack. It cinches back on itself and makes equalizing super quick. I can set up most routes in less than 5 minutes. I used webbing for years. If the tree is 20 or 30 feet back then you have to walk back adjust the girth hitch then check it out at the cliff again to make sure it is equalized then walk back again to the tree if it is not. This can go on and on. There is nothing wrong with using webbing and if you are on a budget it is a third of the price but I set up top-ropes with a lot of my friends who use webbing and I beat them on set up time everytime. Want to race? :-)
As I mentioned, there's no back and forth with my method. When's the race? You'd probably win, as I doubt I'd hurry myself any.
|
|
|
|
|
currupt4130
Feb 25, 2009, 5:39 PM
Post #47 of 51
(822 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 515
|
brianri wrote: In reply to: If you can reasonably get your ends close, you can just adjust the girth hitch on the tree or rock by sliding it around to take up slack. It cinches back on itself and makes equalizing super quick. I can set up most routes in less than 5 minutes. I used webbing for years. If the tree is 20 or 30 feet back then you have to walk back adjust the girth hitch then check it out at the cliff again to make sure it is equalized then walk back again to the tree if it is not. This can go on and on. There is nothing wrong with using webbing and if you are on a budget it is a third of the price but I set up top-ropes with a lot of my friends who use webbing and I beat them on set up time everytime. Want to race? :-)
Sure, we gotta find some neutral ground to have this competition on though.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Feb 26, 2009, 2:32 PM
Post #49 of 51
(783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
After seeing that photo, I'm planning on bringing a couple of monkeys and footballs.
|
|
|
|
|
irw13
Feb 26, 2009, 9:16 PM
Post #50 of 51
(765 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2008
Posts: 32
|
I just got 50' broken up as 20+20+10. I'll see how that works for my first outing. I may end up getting some cord eventually, but I'll see how I can get by on this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
