|
the7thcity
Mar 12, 2009, 3:52 PM
Post #1 of 48
(6839 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2009
Posts: 3
|
Ive done about 5 or 6 routes and trad, and i just bought my first set of cams. anyone know any good articles to read about this? Im aware that the best way to learn is to do it i just wanna gather any and all advice that i can.
Anyone have any "do's or don'ts" to give me? thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
patmay81
Mar 12, 2009, 4:04 PM
Post #2 of 48
(6826 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081
|
there's to many to list. but here's a start:
1. read freedom of the hills
2. practice placing gear on the ground
3. practice clean aid with a toprope back up (will teach you what good and bad placements are better than ANYTHING else.
|
|
|
|
|
jcrew
Mar 12, 2009, 4:05 PM
Post #3 of 48
(6823 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 11, 2006
Posts: 673
|
climb within your ability.....push the grades on routes with "splitter" gear.....learn to downclimb... when in doubt, sew it up try some clean aid routes and you'll get a real sense of what gear is going to hold what.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Mar 12, 2009, 4:06 PM
Post #4 of 48
(6813 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
Two books: Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills, and John Long's book Anchors.
Cheers,
GO
|
|
|
|
|
Couloirman
Mar 12, 2009, 4:28 PM
Post #5 of 48
(6784 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 109
|
the7thcity wrote: new to trad...any advice?
Dont fall
|
|
|
|
|
fxgranite
Mar 12, 2009, 5:14 PM
Post #6 of 48
(6720 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2007
Posts: 358
|
Couloirman wrote: the7thcity wrote: new to trad...any advice? Dont fall
Actually I think he has a point (sort of). I was going to suggest something similar in that I started by climbing routes WELL within my ability (read, not going to fall on) while I sussed out how the gear works. Sounds like you're doing that anyway though. Carry on.
As far as literature goes I think the advice above is really the be all and end all: Freedom of the Hills and Anchors. Become one with them.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Mar 12, 2009, 5:25 PM
Post #7 of 48
(6711 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Hmm... I guess I would say that as you progress through the various disciplines of climbing, safety becomes so much more relative. What might be taboo toproping could be the thing that preserves both your ass and your ascent trad or aid climbing. Edit: But I guess at this stage of the game, sticking to some simple rules, like "don't fall," is probably best.
Also, don't let other people dictate what your climbing should be like. You'll hear purists speak of ground-up ascents as the only valid form of traditional climbing and you'll hear opposing views, too. Sometimes, people get downright mean in defense of their views. Fuck them all. This is you climbing, not them. Make it into what you want it to be.
Last, don't confuse Rockclimbing.com with actual climbing. The norms of the Internet hold more sway here than the norms of the crag, as it both should and should not be. Confused? Welcome to tradland. 
(This post was edited by j_ung on Mar 12, 2009, 5:27 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
kennoyce
Mar 12, 2009, 5:28 PM
Post #8 of 48
(6699 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338
|
DON'T CLIMB TRAD!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's my advice to you.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Mar 12, 2009, 5:31 PM
Post #9 of 48
(6698 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
One more thing. I sometimes hear sportscasters talking about certain athletes being "students of the game." What they mean is that those people never stop learning about their chosen activity. They make it a point to challenge their assumptions at every opportunity and they do not take conventional wisdom for granted. I won't tell you what to be, but after 23 years at this, that's what I'm trying to be.
|
|
|
|
|
graniteboy
Mar 12, 2009, 8:49 PM
Post #10 of 48
(6623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
|
The most iomportant piece of advice to any new climber: Get a mentor.
No book can replace climbing with a good climber and learning from them.
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Mar 12, 2009, 9:51 PM
Post #11 of 48
(6595 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
jcrew wrote: ....push the grades on routes with "splitter" gear....
Someone who has done 5 or 6 routes should not be pushing anything. Someone already said the best advice..."don't fall!"
To the original op...Do you have anyone you climb with that can actually give you feedback about how your placements are? Commit to progressing slowly and spend most of your time learning the technical aspects (placing gear, building anchors, rope management, etc.). Then once you start to gain confidence and learn to assess different situations, eventually you MIGHT be at the point where you can think about climbing harder. Until then, read up, watch better climbers, listen, and don't have an ego.
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
rschap
Mar 13, 2009, 12:03 AM
Post #12 of 48
(6558 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 592
|
Trad is all about improvising, good gear placements and good anchors are probably the most important. When I teach new partners to lead trad I take them to a low angle rock (like 0-30 deg) that has a crack in it and have them place gear every 2 ft until they feel comfortable with placements. Then I look for vertical cracks and practice anchors while standing on the ground. John Long’s climbing anchors (not More climbing anchors), any of the knots for climbers books and Freedom of the hills. And I disagree with everyone on the not falling, fall and fall often, learn to trust your gear.
|
|
|
|
|
rockandlice
Mar 13, 2009, 2:06 AM
Post #14 of 48
(6521 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2008
Posts: 622
|
rschap wrote: And I disagree with everyone on the not falling, fall and fall often, learn to trust your gear.
I think what everyone was getting as was to not fall during the learning portion of proper placement. Once you've got placements dialed, then sure, fall often and build trust I suppose. I think it's bad advice for someone who may be placing marginal gear.
On the flip side, I think your point is to climb low angle easy peezy stuff to learn solid pro placement before "falling often"
Essentially, I think you are actually getting at the same thing everyone else is.
|
|
|
|
|
coastal_climber
Mar 13, 2009, 2:49 AM
Post #15 of 48
(6504 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 2542
|
rockandlice wrote: rschap wrote: And I disagree with everyone on the not falling, fall and fall often, learn to trust your gear. I think what everyone was getting as was to not fall during the learning portion of proper placement. Once you've got placements dialed, then sure, fall often and build trust I suppose. I think it's bad advice for someone who may be placing marginal gear. On the flip side, I think your point is to climb low angle easy peezy stuff to learn solid pro placement before "falling often" Essentially, I think you are actually getting at the same thing everyone else is.
I dunno. Falling on your 6th route is gonna suck the balls, chances are there are a shit ton of ledges. Bad idea. I'd go with learn and progress until you fall, not just falling for "getting used to it". If you wanna see what gear does, aid.
|
|
|
|
|
rocknice2
Mar 13, 2009, 3:14 AM
Post #16 of 48
(6489 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1221
|
I agree with CC. Don't try to fall.
Find VERY easy classics and do them all.
Placing gear on the ground is a good place to practice but the on the sharp end it's still different. Learn how to place great gear on the lead by climbing very easy routes. This will improve your size judgement and placement skills under a bit of pressure. As you progress with you placements up the grade as well.
Look at it this way, it's the best time to knock off all the easy classics in your area.
Don't be in a hurry to fall, that time will come soon enough.
What I can tell you is that you will fuck up in some of your placements early on , guaranteed.
Once you can place great solid pro quickly, jump on some aid and see what's fair, poor and total crap.
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Mar 13, 2009, 3:26 AM
Post #17 of 48
(6477 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
rschap wrote: fall and fall often, learn to trust your gear.
Pay no attention to this idiotic advise. Doesn't matter how long you've been in the game, no one, and I mean no one, can guarantee a 100% that a given piece of pro will hold your fall. Anyone that says they can, is lying. Odds are pretty damn good that some can come close to this illusion, but the odds are even better that you keep tossing yourself on to gear, sooner or later your going to find that one that fails. you might even hit the mother load and have the next one fail to boot. Good luck with that.
Your mantra should be, never fall.
|
|
|
|
|
lostcauseclimber
Mar 13, 2009, 3:47 AM
Post #18 of 48
(6464 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 23
|
my first season leading on gear i did all easy stuff, like 2 number grades lower than my sport onsite level at the time, max. don't push it for awhile, like others have said take the time to learn the trade on easier ground and enjoy the experience of being up there because thats what its all about.
|
|
|
|
|
a-e-jones
Mar 13, 2009, 5:37 AM
Post #19 of 48
(6430 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 5, 2008
Posts: 295
|
"i just wanna gather any and all advice that i can."
the search function is your new best friend
|
|
|
|
|
jcrew
Mar 13, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #20 of 48
(6367 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 11, 2006
Posts: 673
|
moose_droppings wrote: rschap wrote: fall and fall often, learn to trust your gear. Your mantra should be, never fall.
and stay on 5.9 forever.... you can fall on trad. and the gear does work.
anyone who is placing "marginal" gear needs their head examined. you're better off climbing with no gear than with some illusional "pro"....if the piece is shitty, don't clip it. clipping shitty gear can cause a whole host of problems....learn to downclimb!!
|
|
|
|
|
coastal_climber
Mar 13, 2009, 5:45 PM
Post #21 of 48
(6330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 2542
|
jcrew wrote: moose_droppings wrote: rschap wrote: fall and fall often, learn to trust your gear. Your mantra should be, never fall. and stay on 5.9 forever.... you can fall on trad. and the gear does work.
Of course gear holds. When you can place it well and efficiently. We are talking about someone who has done their 6th trad climb. Wrong time to start pushing the grades. Is there something wrong with starting at 5.5 and working up from there?
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Mar 13, 2009, 6:14 PM
Post #22 of 48
(6319 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
I'm not talking about marginal gear.
The gear does work, and so do placements, more often then not. You should trust your climbing abilities even more. To say fall and fall often implies just taking falls for the sake of taking them and getting used to it. Placements aren't a 100% or else we'd all be building one piece anchors. You keep tossing yourself often on to (even well placed) gear placements and it will catch up to you. If you want to up your odds of practice falling, try it on some bolts. Spurt climbing is a safer place to push yourself. Purposely and frequently tossing your self on to trad pro will land you in the hurt locker sooner or later.
You should feel comfortable climbing above your pro, and at the same time be aware that nothings a gimme. If you can't get past your arbitrary 5.9 level knowing that, find a different game. Your first line of defense is not to fall.
|
|
|
|
|
coastal_climber
Mar 13, 2009, 6:22 PM
Post #23 of 48
(6309 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 2542
|
moose_droppings wrote: I'm not talking about marginal gear. The gear does work, and so do placements, more often then not. You should trust your climbing abilities even more. To say fall and fall often implies just taking falls for the sake of taking them and getting used to it. Placements aren't a 100% or else we'd all be building one piece anchors. You keep tossing yourself often on to (even well placed) gear placements and it will catch up to you. If you want to up your odds of practice falling, try it on some bolts. Spurt climbing is a safer place to push yourself. Purposely and frequently tossing your self on to trad pro will land you in the hurt locker sooner or later. You should feel comfortable climbing above your pro, and at the same time be aware that nothings a gimme. If you can't get past your arbitrary 5.9 level knowing that, find a different game. Your first line of defense is not to fall.
I agree with you 100%. I was quoting jcrew, since I didn't agree with what he said.
|
|
|
|
|
hansundfritz
Mar 13, 2009, 6:27 PM
Post #24 of 48
(6306 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2008
Posts: 139
|
FWIW, here's my advice:
1. DO read Freedom of the Hills several times
2. DO read Long's anchors book (2nd edition) several times
3. DO take a guided course in anchor-building somewhere (I've been climbing 27 years and still like taking classes and always learn something new)
4. DO lead many, many routes below your TR grade.
5. DO try to develop a climbing partnership with someone you can learn with and trust. Swap leads, critique each other's placements and anchors.
6. DO adhere -- at least at first -- to the old adage: The leader must not fall.
7. DON'T wait until you have a huge rack to get out there and start developing your head.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
