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cracklover
Sep 18, 2009, 4:09 PM
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Hi folks,
I'm thinking about fixing a chain draw to a sport route with a sharp crystal that's cutting through the standard fixed dogbones.
I've never fixed chains before. Here's what I'm thinking it should look like: Hanger -> quicklink -> chain -> quicklink -> biner
Is that correct?
And a couple of other questions: 1 - Do I want an even number of links so the biner gate is facing out, or an odd number so it's facing parallel to the wall? 2 - Do I need to find stainless chains? Will regular chains rust and leave a streaky mess on the wall?
Any other tips from folks with experience? Stuff I don't even know to ask?
BTW - I know I could just pound the crystal so it's not sharp anymore. Sorry, I'm not going to go that route, so don't bother suggesting it.
Thanks!
GO
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adam14113
Sep 18, 2009, 4:44 PM
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Stop the chain madness. All these chains hanging from routes are making it look like a dungeon torture chamber. Hideous ... it's almost making me convert to strictly trad.
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acorneau
Sep 18, 2009, 4:50 PM
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cracklover wrote: I've never fixed chains before. Here's what I'm thinking it should look like: Hanger -> quicklink -> chain -> quicklink -> biner Is that correct?
Should be able to put the biner directly on the chains with no need for a second quicklink. Some zip-ties or something to keep the biner in place would be handy, or you can use a gym-style biner with a captive pin like this one:
In reply to: 1 - Do I want an even number of links so the biner gate is facing out, or an odd number so it's facing parallel to the wall?
That's situation-dependent. Whatever is easy to clip and not easy to accidentally unclip.
In reply to: 2 - Do I need to find stainless chains? Will regular chains rust and leave a streaky mess on the wall?
Eventually, yes. Use all stainless hardware and it will be there for 20 years or more.
In reply to: Any other tips from folks with experience? Stuff I don't even know to ask?
Use some Loctite on the threads of the quicklink so the gear doesn't get stolen.
(edit for formatting/punctuation.)
(This post was edited by acorneau on Sep 18, 2009, 4:53 PM)
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shockabuku
Sep 18, 2009, 5:04 PM
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I think quicklink, chain, biner with some type of device to keep the biner from inverting.
Stainless is probably good but I don't think that most of the chains I see around here are stainless. If it's in the canyon (Clear Creek?) though it may tend to rust faster. I've only climbed down there a couple of times.
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cracklover
Sep 18, 2009, 5:23 PM
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Thanks, all for the thoughts.
A few comments...
acorneau wrote: Some zip-ties or something to keep the biner in place would be handy
That's a neat suggestion. I have some black zip-ties that would be quite inobtrusive, would last essentially forever, would be easy to remove by someone who puts the effort into bringing up a knife, but hard enough to discourage someone who just thinks - ooh, free biner!
In reply to: In reply to: 1 - Do I want an even number of links so the biner gate is facing out, or an odd number so it's facing parallel to the wall? That's situation-dependent. Whatever is easy to clip and not easy to accidentally unclip.
That makes sense. Standard recommendation for facing out is appropriate for anchors, but, I imagine, not so good for draws, where a fall could cause it to unclip.
Regarding the second quicklink - I had assumed a standard biner wouldn't fit through the chain. Y'all are saying that's not an issue?
Regarding stainless - so that's really a necessity, huh? Okay, that would mean I'd have to invest in a can of spraypaint, too. Whereas regular chains would probably blend right in naturally.
Oh, and yeah, this is Clear Creek.
GO
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caughtinside
Sep 18, 2009, 5:33 PM
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a quick twist of tire/bailing wire works to connect the chain to the biner if theft is a worry.
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adam14113
Sep 18, 2009, 9:09 PM
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In reply to the response from bill413,
I was making hyperbole of the increasing garbage being left on a climb regardless of it being a chain or not. If the route can be lead and cleaned by the climber then I am against draws being permanently hung on the crag. I think now it's getting to a point of creating too much of a convenience and/or people with too much time on their hands that want to play with chains and quick links.
(This post was edited by adam14113 on Sep 18, 2009, 9:11 PM)
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beesknees
Sep 18, 2009, 9:24 PM
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i was climbing at riggins cave in idaho this summer, and they have all chain draws. the chains are stainless, and the biners are held in place (not theft, but rotation) by a short piece of rubber tubing over the last link of the chain - it's pulled down tight against the biner. it's the equivalent of the little rubber cap that holds the rope-end biner in place on a petzl spirit dog bone. further, if the whole thing is permanent, a steel biner might be a good idea as well.
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bennydh
Sep 18, 2009, 9:42 PM
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If the draw is crap, and there is already a bolt hanger, why not just clean the thing off.
People could clip the hanger themselves with their own gear no?
Maybe the fixed draw was first ascent/ or local style, but this would be safer without adding more metal to the rock.
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adatesman
Sep 18, 2009, 9:43 PM
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bennydh
Sep 18, 2009, 10:02 PM
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adatesman wrote: cracklover wrote: BTW - I know I could just pound the crystal so it's not sharp anymore. Sorry, I'm not going to go that route, so don't bother suggesting it. But isn't the abuse the crystal is going to take from the chain just going to do that anyway? Seems like less effort to just whack it a bit. In any case, McMaster-Carr has just about every type of chain you would want. (Linking their pages doesn't always work, so if it doesn't take you to the right place do a search on their site for "stainless steel chain")
Round Bead chain looks kinky.
http://www.mcmaster.com/...-steel-chain/=3ou345
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adam14113
Sep 18, 2009, 10:44 PM
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In reply to: Shocking I know but I thought I'd search for 'fixed draws' and found a thread pointing to these: http://frostworksclimbing.com/powerdraws.html Kind of interesting.
I knew I have seen wired runners before. Way better option then bulky chains I've seen going up. If you must use perma draws a say be consistent with all the gear used instead of creating an unsightly mix matched ghetto.
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danull16
Sep 21, 2009, 5:00 AM
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very cool. seems like one should have two or three for a draw in their rack. i may try to purchase some. great find.
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qwert
Sep 21, 2009, 8:00 AM
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i would also recommend the frost draws. They are a bit on the weak side, but should do.
A chain will not only look bad, it will also probably break the sharp edge anyways. If you want to use something strong, that lets you avoid killing the crystal, then its definitely not chains!
But what about simply padding the draw in question? A few wraps of tape, or even some sheet wrapped around the draw should do it.
Or even better: try to get a hold of the FA, or the group responsible for the crag. If the crystal is really that bad, one should thinka bout relocating an obviously badly placed bolt!
qwert
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cracklover
Sep 21, 2009, 3:53 PM
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qwert wrote: But what about simply padding the draw in question? A few wraps of tape, or even some sheet wrapped around the draw should do it.
That is exactly what I did when I found the original bad draw - put up my own dogbone with a tape wrap - but it's a short-term solution at best. By the start of next season (if it hasn't already happened) I've no doubt the tape will unravel leaving a big unsightly mess.
In reply to: Or even better: try to get a hold of the FA, or the group responsible for the crag. If the crystal is really that bad, one should thinka bout relocating an obviously badly placed bolt! qwert
I think the two best solutions are the frost draw or stripping the fixed draws off the route. I'll think about it more.
BTW, the crag already has chains on another route. But the Frost draw looks like a much prettier solution than adding another chain.
GO
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jakedatc
Sep 21, 2009, 5:18 PM
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Gabe.. you could always just leave a big quick link on the bolt hanger to extend it far enough to get away from that spike? Then a normal draw could be hung like usual? Lock-tite the threads so folks won't think it is a bail biner. This set up is on a few spots in Rumney where the bolt was put in good rock but a short extension was needed
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hafilax
Sep 21, 2009, 5:55 PM
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Can you move the bolt to a better location? If it's just a matter of a badly placed bolt wouldn't moving it have less impact than a fixed metal draw?
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dan4geng
Sep 21, 2009, 6:11 PM
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Another option is to use a regular draw but put it in a cut piece of rubber tubbing to protect it.
Something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/...&catalogId=10053
That way it will be protected from abrasion, UV damage and also makes a great hold if your too pumped to clip.
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chossmonkey
Sep 21, 2009, 11:44 PM
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hafilax wrote: Can you move the bolt to a better location? If it's just a matter of a badly placed bolt wouldn't moving it have less impact than a fixed metal draw?
Honestly, there were probably tons of rock jacked of the cliff. A bunch of holes drilled into the rock. The base of the cliff has been trampled to death and the OP is against flattening out a sharp spot on the rock and would rather hang a fixed draw eyesore.
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