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brizza
Dec 3, 2009, 9:54 PM
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I am writing a paper on alpine climbing as an incubator for business leadership skills. I would love to include a list of leadership skills you all have learned on the rock or in the mountains in my paper. If you could post a response to the following question, that would be so rad. Please also include your name and location.
What is the most important leadership lesson climbing has taught you?
Thanks a million - keep climbing hard,
Brett
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shimanilami
Dec 3, 2009, 10:25 PM
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I would suggest that climbing is not a good incubator for business leadership skills. Business leadership revolves around the ability to influence others, whereas climbing in largely a personal, individual effort.
If you wanted to force the argument, you could say that climbing will teach a person first-hand the value of risk assessment. Climbing might also teach a person the value of commitment, although I don't think climbing does any better job at this than, for instance, learning to play the piano.
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byran
Dec 3, 2009, 10:32 PM
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This one time my partner was following a pitch too slow and hanging on the rope a lot, so I cut him off. This skill I've developed climbing carries over into the workplace where I must fire employees who aren't pulling their weight, and not let my personal friendship with that employee affect my decision.
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ryanb
Dec 3, 2009, 10:46 PM
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brizza wrote: I am writing a paper on alpine climbing as an incubator for business leadership skills. I would love to include a list of leadership skills you all have learned on the rock or in the mountains in my paper. If you could post a response to the following question, that would be so rad. Please also include your name and location. What is the most important leadership lesson climbing has taught you? Thanks a million - keep climbing hard, Brett
Most important: stop money grubbing.
Second most important: leadership means hanging out with idiots at 3d rate crags.
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skiclimb
Dec 4, 2009, 12:46 AM
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One of the things someone with leadership and social skills notices about climbers very quickly is that they are for the most part impossible to lead dont want to listen and are pretty much anti social misfits. And we like it that way
Leadership is involved in some climbing related areas such as mountain rescue. But in general otherwise climbers will teach you how leadership isn't done.
(This post was edited by skiclimb on Dec 4, 2009, 12:48 AM)
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kriso9tails
Dec 4, 2009, 1:06 AM
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Well, I could come up with lots of stuff that would sound leadership-ish, but...
shimanilami wrote: I would suggest that climbing is not a good incubator for business leadership skills. Business leadership revolves around the ability to influence others, whereas climbing is largely a personal, individual effort.
...I tend to agree with this.
I mean, risk assessment, as an example, is a vital skill in both climbing and business leadership, but in terms of how it is applied to each activity, I don't see only the most general of similarities.
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jaablink
Dec 4, 2009, 3:00 AM
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brizza wrote: What is the most important leadership lesson climbing has taught you?
Someone has to lead… or there is disorganization and chaos …. When it is your lead, you need to look and plan ahead, execute your plan with precision, and follow through…. If there is a complication , you should have a backup plan, redundancy … always have a backup…
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brizza
Dec 4, 2009, 3:45 AM
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Thanks jaablink - I'm going to use that one.
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bill413
Dec 4, 2009, 4:18 AM
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I think that one lesson I have learned is that you need to be aware of the capabilities of your team in relation to the situation and the environment. You may have certain skills, but if your team doesn't, you may not be able to proceed as you had planned.
Assess what you are getting into. Assess your team. Assess the skills - not just of the group, but of the individuals.
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jcrew
Dec 4, 2009, 5:12 AM
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a couple thoughts: in climbing, the "leader" must actually lead and not just coach or delegate,
and when it's not your pitch, then support until it's your turn to lead again.
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cbw
Dec 4, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Check out the book High Altitude Leadership.
www.highaltitudeleadership.com
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billl7
Dec 4, 2009, 2:16 PM
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There is of course a huge difference between a mountaineering expedition and cragging. For emphasis, these are WORLDS apart in terms of leadership. The latter is like organizing a trip to the coffee shop to chat with your friends. The former is like going to mars in a small craft with a handful of folks.
I'm thinking you meant the former by using the phrase "alpine climbing".
You may get more relevant feedback if you expand your search with a post on SuperTopo.com and perhaps CascadeClimbers.com. A few here will also have good answers.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Dec 4, 2009, 2:17 PM)
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maldaly
Dec 4, 2009, 2:36 PM
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Hey brizza,
I've been asked to give leadership presentations and seminars at a few of the B-schools around here. For some reason people think it's something I can do. (Lead, that is.) So I prepared a presentation I call "Everything I Know About Leadership I Learned From Climbing". I present it is a series of 19 frames (Viewable here: http://www.me.com/gallery/#100237) with memorable pictures. Each frame has a rule like "Keep Your Balance" or "Learn to Fall". On each frame I talk about why that rule is important for climbing and then how I apply that rule in how I run my business or non-profit. Check it out. PM me if you want to hear more or talk on the phone.
Mal
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jaablink
Dec 4, 2009, 3:38 PM
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Its teaching me to keep a cooler head, with on the ground situations, when dealing with sometimes less than respectful people… It has been a while since I ripped someones head off and shit down their throat.
It teaches you to recognize strengths in your group that will be a benefit to the whole , and potential weakness in your partners that you need to discuss and correct before things get out of hand and put you and your team in danger.
It teaches you teamwork , how talking thing through with others in your team to come up with a good plan , that looks at many different points of view. Many times you hear ideas that you alone would not have come up with by yourself .
It gives greater appreciation and respect for differences within a group. And also conflict foresight recognition and management.
With a good team leader , the team is always engaged and a part of the decision making and learning process, The team wins not I win. It cant be a dictatorship because you will loose respect in the eyes of the team, the team in turn will not perform well, causing a new set of problems….
It hit 50 here and sunny in NH in December… that’s crazy… going climbing …. Later….
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onrockandice
Dec 4, 2009, 4:18 PM
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shimanilami wrote: I would suggest that climbing is not a good incubator for business leadership skills. Business leadership revolves around the ability to influence others, whereas climbing in largely a personal, individual effort.
I'm a business owner and have been for 6 years. I'd say there is plenty about climbing that applies to leadership in a business setting and I mean tons.
1. Choosing the right partners is everything.
2. Knowing when/where and what to buy (spending capital) is critical. The Gunks rack vastly differs from Indian Creek.
3. Techniques that are known and established are safe but is their success out their on the fringe somewhere and if so how do you find it? Solo? Roped solo? Alpine mountaineering? Sometimes your R & D has tons of consequence and lots of exposure it's all or nothing.
4. Knowing how to fall/fail so that you can still succeed.
5. Understanding your resources, "Half-way!", "10 meters left." Down to 3 cams and still 100 feet of climbing to go. What now? Businesses are often faced with limited resources and still moving forward.
6. Certifications? Is an AMGA guide certification necessary? Are other expensive certifications necessary? How do they support your business model?
7. Experience. Do you want the old guy who's been cragging forever and sending 5.14 finger cracks in roofs? Do you want the inexperienced but talented guy? Do you want something in between?
8. Instinct. There are climbers with killer instinct. They seem to know when punching it up 100' with no pro is going to pay off and yet in another situation they won't go 10 feet above protection. You have to be able to feel something and then act correctly on it.
9. Respect for traditions. Do you want some dude who holds tradition as inviolate and won't budge? Do you want/need some dude who could care less about tradition? (Think bolting ground up or on rappel or whatever...)
I think there are many ways to bridge things climbers do every day to business in tangible and thoughtful ways. Business is chalk full of risk at times.
Write your paper and don't be held back. I think you are onto something. Go after it.
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jjanowia
Dec 4, 2009, 4:27 PM
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I know you're asking for personal anecdotes, but these are good books on the subject (sorry if you've already looked at these); I'm assuming that if you're trolling for opinions, you probably haven't done tons of actual research:
http://books.google.com/...e&q=&f=false
Graham has an impressive professional pedigree (albeit in government, not business).
http://www.amazon.com/...osseff/dp/1929173210
Both books speak to the aspects related more to alpine climbing / mountaineering than cragging, which for some reason people are hating all over in this thread.
(This post was edited by jjanowia on Dec 4, 2009, 4:28 PM)
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Scooter12ga
Dec 4, 2009, 4:31 PM
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There can definitely be an arrogance factor - especially with craggers, gym climbers, and young'uns that is not desirable in a leadership setting. I don't think that these are the types of people whom you're referring to.
In your subject, however, I keyed in on the "ALPINE" factor which I believe is much different. In alpine and expedition climbing, there is a large project management factor that I believe makes people better leaders overall whether they lead the trip or are simply a team member. I'll try not to reiterate some of the other pro-leadership comments made by others, but here are some considerations.
-No fear to establish a bold, ambitious, goal.
-Planning for and commitment to the goal (sometimes years in advance.)
-Developing a critical path of events that must occur to be successful (assembling a team, training, scheduling travel, payment of fees, permits, purchasing supplies, etc...)
-Motivating others to work toward the team goal.
-Budget and financial management.
-Having one or more "plan B" scenarios ready.
-Knowing when its appropriate to lead and when it's time to step back and let others take the helm.
-Knowing when to admit mistake or defeat, without excuses.
-Time management (sticking to the plan and keeping tasks on-schedule.)
-Delegation of tasks to other team members (during planning and during the actual climb.)
-Recognition of hard work and keeping team morale positive.
-Trusting others and their abilities.
-Objectively evaluating the current situation continuously.
-Applying lessons learned to future endeavors.
We could probably list the personal skills you learn all day long...but there is another important factor which is the way others perceive you. Your alpine adventures can influence that outside view significantly:
-Setting ambitious goals and ACHIEVING them.
-No shame for failure (Executives like to hire leaders who have failed because there is a lot learned from making mistakes.)
-Confidence
-Persistence
-Commitment
-Commitment
-Commitment
You may also want to check out a book called "Career Warfare" by David F. D'Alessandro. In it, he tells a story of a man who successfully climbed Denali and went on to be a Director or VP (I can't remember exactly) and cites the reasons why he was chosen which includes some of the things I've mentioned above. This might help with your official citations versus "things n00bz sez on tha intarwebz".
I'll PM you my real name and "rank card" if that helps with clout in your bibliography 
EDIT: Whoah - a lot of replies came in while I was typing this. Sorry if I reiterated something that others have said - I'm not trying to steal your fire, promise!
~Mike
(This post was edited by Scooter12ga on Dec 4, 2009, 4:34 PM)
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