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johnwesely
Mar 5, 2010, 4:51 PM
Post #26 of 47
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jeepnphreak wrote: johnwern wrote: Hey everyone, My friend and I are college students in the beginning stages of starting a new climbing apparel company. We are working towards making shorts and pants with the sole intention of helping you make the most of your climbs. We would love it if you would tell us what you have liked about your current climbing shorts and pants and what you would like to see in your future purchases. Thanks! John How about somthing like a light weight pair of carharts with a rubber strip over the knee so I can knee bar a crack and not shread my legs and pants
Cheater.
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shockabuku
Mar 5, 2010, 5:42 PM
Post #27 of 47
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Durable (double stitched seams) heavy wieght synthetic. Built in belt with low profile buckle. Elastic waist is bad. Zipper pockets with thigh pocket big enough for wallet. No lining. Not built for stick figured people (Prana pants are too skinny).
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unrooted
Mar 5, 2010, 5:55 PM
Post #28 of 47
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shockabuku wrote: (Prana pants are too skinny).
you must be one fat mother fucker.
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bigjonnyc
Mar 5, 2010, 6:02 PM
Post #29 of 47
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unrooted wrote: shockabuku wrote: (Prana pants are too skinny). you must be one fat mother fucker.
Oh, snap!
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jeepnphreak
Mar 5, 2010, 6:17 PM
Post #30 of 47
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johnwesely wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: johnwern wrote: Hey everyone, My friend and I are college students in the beginning stages of starting a new climbing apparel company. We are working towards making shorts and pants with the sole intention of helping you make the most of your climbs. We would love it if you would tell us what you have liked about your current climbing shorts and pants and what you would like to see in your future purchases. Thanks! John How about somthing like a light weight pair of carharts with a rubber strip over the knee so I can knee bar a crack and not shread my legs and pants Cheater.
Hey, now whats wrong with a no hands knee bar.
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shockabuku
Mar 5, 2010, 6:33 PM
Post #31 of 47
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unrooted wrote: shockabuku wrote: (Prana pants are too skinny). you must be one fat mother fucker.
Old too, but I still onsight better than .10c.
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johnwesely
Mar 5, 2010, 7:39 PM
Post #32 of 47
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jeepnphreak wrote: johnwesely wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: johnwern wrote: Hey everyone, My friend and I are college students in the beginning stages of starting a new climbing apparel company. We are working towards making shorts and pants with the sole intention of helping you make the most of your climbs. We would love it if you would tell us what you have liked about your current climbing shorts and pants and what you would like to see in your future purchases. Thanks! John How about somthing like a light weight pair of carharts with a rubber strip over the knee so I can knee bar a crack and not shread my legs and pants Cheater. Hey, now whats wrong with a no hands knee bar.
My legs are always too long to get them.
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i_h8_choss
Mar 5, 2010, 7:43 PM
Post #33 of 47
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Durable like denim blue jeans although waterproof. and have a guidebook pocket/large beer can pocket. and a velcro ass seam for harness dumplings. When you roll up the pant legs, its got the button to keep them rolled.
(This post was edited by i_h8_choss on Mar 5, 2010, 7:44 PM)
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zealotnoob
Mar 5, 2010, 7:43 PM
Post #34 of 47
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I have a pair of patagonia pants that have the two-way fly feature. It's nice.
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sp00ki
Mar 5, 2010, 8:12 PM
Post #35 of 47
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silascl wrote: colatownkid wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: sspssp wrote: Are you trying to market to climbers that are hanging around cragging or all day multi-pitch? For all day climbs, I want synthetic, durable (meaning I can spend six weeks doing desert offwidths and not put a hole in the knee), zipped pockets, and choices other than black. what he said, and i want the pockets big enough to hold a guidebook if possible (i.e. zipped cargo pockets). zip off trouser extension wotsites are handy but the zips around the knees can tear holes in my skin which sucks. some kind of setup to tighten the cuffs / roll them up is handy too so that they don't get in the way when climbing but still cover the ankles when i'm walking. steve all of the above, plus: slightly stretchy with gusseted crotch and articulated knees. a fly that zips from both ends would be awesome, too. 2 front pockets, 2 back pockets, and a cargo pocket on each leg (for the clif bar, topo, etc.) oh, and lightweight and windproof. I'm not sure if this is a troll, but you guys have successfully described an expedition backpack, not a fucking pair of pants. Pants are there to cover your legs. Sure it's nice to have a couple pockets, maybe one that zips or velcros so you won't lose something important but at some point enough is enough.
the problem with threads like this is that the majority of consumers have no clue what they actually want, and decide to become designers any time their input is requested.
If focus groups really knew what it was they wanted, the iphone would be a complete flop on the sole basis that it doesn't have buttons...
The way i see it, if you have a good idea, make it.
If you don't, you probably don't need to make anything.
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gmggg
Mar 5, 2010, 8:21 PM
Post #36 of 47
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sp00ki wrote: silascl wrote: colatownkid wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: sspssp wrote: Are you trying to market to climbers that are hanging around cragging or all day multi-pitch? For all day climbs, I want synthetic, durable (meaning I can spend six weeks doing desert offwidths and not put a hole in the knee), zipped pockets, and choices other than black. what he said, and i want the pockets big enough to hold a guidebook if possible (i.e. zipped cargo pockets). zip off trouser extension wotsites are handy but the zips around the knees can tear holes in my skin which sucks. some kind of setup to tighten the cuffs / roll them up is handy too so that they don't get in the way when climbing but still cover the ankles when i'm walking. steve all of the above, plus: slightly stretchy with gusseted crotch and articulated knees. a fly that zips from both ends would be awesome, too. 2 front pockets, 2 back pockets, and a cargo pocket on each leg (for the clif bar, topo, etc.) oh, and lightweight and windproof. I'm not sure if this is a troll, but you guys have successfully described an expedition backpack, not a fucking pair of pants. Pants are there to cover your legs. Sure it's nice to have a couple pockets, maybe one that zips or velcros so you won't lose something important but at some point enough is enough. seriously. the last thing i want to do is empty a bunch of gear from my pants every time i want to climb something. the problem with threads like this is that the majority of consumers have no clue what they actually want, and decide to become designers any time their input is requested. If focus groups really knew what it was they wanted, the iphone would be a complete flop on the sole basis that it doesn't have buttons... The way i see it, if you have a good idea, make it. If you don't, you probably don't need to make anything.
The iphone has buttons...
But I agree to some extent. Several times I have been forced into a little "market research" only to see a good idea watered down so that it is more acceptable to the masses...
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sspssp
Mar 5, 2010, 8:45 PM
Post #37 of 47
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sp00ki wrote: the problem with threads like this is that the majority of consumers have no clue what they actually want, and decide to become designers any time their input is requested.
Probaby true, but I have a lot of experience with what I hate.
I got caught ten ptiches up in thunderstorm wearing cotton. I hate cotton on a multi-pitch.
I have put holes in the knees of brand new pants after two days climbing at Indian Creek. I hate "climbing" clothing that claims it is durable when it is not.
I have gotten biners snagged on the opening of pockets (and have had things fall out). I hate pockets that are not zippered.
I have had flimsy mesh pockets get holes in them and have my keys fall through them and slide down my leg (but hey, the top was zippered -;). I hate flimsy mesh pockets.
On the same multi-pitch climb, I have been cold belaying in the shade and hot climbing in the sun. Black does nothing to keep you warmer in the shade, but it makes you hotter in the sun. I hate black.
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caughtinside
Mar 5, 2010, 9:02 PM
Post #38 of 47
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The problem with climbing pants, is that to make them so they'll hold up to trad climbing, they'll have to be expensive. You'll need a durable material and heavy duty seams. This will be expensive. There are lots of climbers out there willing to pay a heftyish price (around 70-80) for a pair of pants, I am not one of them.
I shop the clearance racks and thrift stores for climbing pants. No frills please. Cargo pockets can be nice but are not mandatory. If you have anyhting in any pockets it will get rubbed first on a scum and that's your wear spot. I have holes on all my pants from my chapsick, right front pocket.
I don't like a belt of any kind, I just buy pants that fit. Sometimes I'll buy them long and chop them down, this seems to help get more room on the inseam for freedom of movement.
Beltloops can sometimes be a pain, easy to clip when you're putting stuff on your harness. If it's a problem I cut those off too.
I like and prefer cotton, I feel it is the most comfortable and breathes well for standard California cragging. as sspssp pointed out though, it is inappropriate for the mountains or long routes. For that stuff, I have a pair of patagoinia guide pants I got secondhand (black, unfortunately) and what I usually go with, lightweight nylon pants from REI. nylon is tough for the thinness, and dries fast.
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shockabuku
Mar 5, 2010, 10:17 PM
Post #39 of 47
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sspssp wrote: On the same multi-pitch climb, I have been cold belaying in the shade and hot climbing in the sun. Black does nothing to keep you warmer in the shade, but it makes you hotter in the sun. I hate black.
Yeah. Why the hell is it that almost all men's clothing is dark colors? I hate that (in the summer).
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Mar 5, 2010, 10:18 PM)
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btreanor
Mar 5, 2010, 10:25 PM
Post #40 of 47
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These comments are focused on cragging pants, which really don't need to be softshell, water resistant, windproof, and so on.
Here is what i would pay for, seriously:
Some pants that don't fall apart.
I'm not sure how often these folks who claim to have pants last two seasons in Josh actually climb, but I climb much, much less often than I did 10 years ago, and pants fall apart in the seat in less than one season. Maybe I do more ass-sliding on the descents than a regular guy, but c'mon, if you are really climbing regularly, and climbing diversely (real offwidths, real long days with real high mileage), pants just don't last.
To the OP: here is what you do. Make some cotton pants in the absolute heaviest duck canvas you can get. I want them stiff as half inch plywood when I get them in the store and fully uncomfortable to wear. I know that, over time, they will wear in and get comfy. Anything comfy off the rack is too soft to stand up to real climbing. Then double up the fabric on the seat and the knees.
That's what I want in a craggin pant for southern California. Yes, I have some fancy-pants Patagonia softshells for winter climbing and alpine routes. They've been pretty good. But for a pair of pants to wear at Josh (I laugh my ass off at the knuckle heads trashing $150 Patagonia pants at Josh) and for most Grade I to Grade IV routes, I just want a fecking bomber pair of cotton pants. Let 'em be ugly. Let 'em be uncomfortably stiff to start out (I'm not one of those boobs that buys broken in "stonewashed" jeans either, I can break 'em in myself) just please, please make them durable.
Brian
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caughtinside
Mar 5, 2010, 10:33 PM
Post #41 of 47
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Won't Carharts do it for you?
I steer clear of them because I don't like them stiff from the get go, but I have friends who dig em.
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btreanor
Mar 5, 2010, 10:44 PM
Post #42 of 47
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They're good, but even Carhartts wear out too fast. No joke. I'd take 'em heavier (i.e., from a heavier canvass) if they would last longer. I wear pants with TONS of patches on the seat and knees (you'll find me at Josh if you just look for the worst dressed climber). But I'm tired of tossing pants with perfectly good fabric everywhere but the seat, after I've worn through three or four layers of patches.
(This post was edited by btreanor on Mar 5, 2010, 10:45 PM)
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sspssp
Mar 6, 2010, 12:13 AM
Post #43 of 47
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btreanor wrote: These comments are focused on cragging pants, which really don't need to be softshell, water resistant, windproof, and so on. But for a pair of pants to wear at Josh (I laugh my ass off at the knuckle heads trashing $150 Patagonia pants at Josh) and for most Grade I to Grade IV routes, I just want a fecking bomber pair of cotton pants.
Right, but for summer climbing in Yosemite and even Tuolumne (for instance) most of what goes under "soft shell" is either too heavy and hot or flimsy material that gets trashed quickly. I have found it difficult to find light weight, nylon pants that are durable for warmish climbing that also has zipped pockets and are not black. Most light weight pants with zipped pockets are a high-tech wind/water resistant and will blow out a knee the first time you take a 6 foot "take" on an Indian Creek climb (my experience anyway).
As far as pataguchii clothing, I understand laughing at people cragging in $100+ pants, but...
I won't craig/climb in cotton. I started up a grade IV on a sunny day in cotton, had a thunderstorm come of a "clear blue sky" and although it was not as dire as "almost killed me" I was miserable and lucky there was almost no wind (for such a hard rain).
And I don't even like hiking, say, out of the back areas, like Joshua tree, in wet cotton.
I have gone off to do one pitch cragging, found the route occupied and ended up on multi-pitch instead.
So I just won't wear cotton when climbing outdoors. Even if I am planning on short climbs. It doesn't happen.
Even my socks and underwear are synthetic.
Hypothermia does that to a person.
As to the OP, the pataguchi simple guide pants are pretty close to what I am looking for. I have a tan pair that I have climbed in exclusively for years (for warmish conditions) that have zipped pockets, are not hot, has no holes and shows only minimal wear. A climbing buddy of mine the other night mentioned that I had been wearing the same pair for years. I thought, "he's right, I should buy another pair before they go off the market". So I looked, but the "redesigned" simple guide is only in black (the other versions are too heavy and hot). But i would take my current pair over 5 pairs of disposal $20 pants. YMMV.
cheers
(This post was edited by sspssp on Mar 6, 2010, 12:21 AM)
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btreanor
Mar 6, 2010, 1:20 AM
Post #44 of 47
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Just to be clear, I'm not trashing Patagonia. Almost all of my outdoor gear is from Patagonia, which I support for it's environmental mission more than anything else. However, (1) I don't own multiples of everything and (2) I use it until in genuinely wears out, which means I have a lot of really old Patagoina shite. When I do have to buy something new, I'm happy to shell out the extra ducats to support Patagonia.
What's funny is people decked out in hundreds and hundreds of dollars of high tech clothing to climb single pitch routes on a 60 degree day in Josh.
I take your point about 'unexpected' turns of events, and you are right to make it. When there is a chance of a storm, I'll be the first to toss a light shell into the pack, or tie it around my waist on Sierra routes. However, in many cases that's an extreme statistical outlier, to the point of not really being a concern. I mean, I might be struck by lightning while climbing, some of my friends have been, but I don't really worry about it on 99% of the days I'm climbing. On the 1% of the days where it is prudent to be concerned, I'm the first to be safe about it.
To paraphrase both Thoreau (and Chouinard!, who expressed the same sentiment though in a different way): beware all endeavors that require new clothes instead of a new man. People climb El Cap, in a day, wearing cotton, all the time. On some days that would be stupid, on a some days that would be risky, but on many days it would be just fine.
I think it is easy to "over think" climbing and all the accoutrement associated with it. Most of the time it's pretty straightforward.
(This post was edited by btreanor on Mar 6, 2010, 2:30 AM)
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guangzhou
Mar 6, 2010, 12:02 PM
Post #45 of 47
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I a shocked that so many of you destroy so many pants. Yes, I wear out pants and shorts climbing too, but I try to avoid drag my shorts up routes when ever I can.
In all honesty, shorts are short. Some last longer than others, but I can't remember the last time I bought shorts or pants specifically made for climbing. Just seems like a waste to me.
I do own some climbing cloths from climbing companies, but almost all of them were given to meby either the company or non-climbers who wanted to give me a "climbing gift."
Again, my shorts normally come from K-mart. I buy two or three pair a year and use them for swiming, climbing, running, and all else.
Yes, I climb wide cracks, yes I climb J-tree and I still don;t destroy shorts and pants at the rate some of you claim too.
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erin__b
Mar 7, 2010, 11:04 AM
Post #46 of 47
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My ideal climbing pants would include the following features: breathable (ie not cotton, I hate the sweat stain marks of my harness when wearing cotton pants), 4 way stretch, durable (reinforced knees); articulated knees; colour other than black; waist high enough so that it doesn't slip under the harness, but not a waist secured with a belt etc, because this chafes. For summer climbing I like 3/4 length pants- they should end a few cm below knee (not mid-calf).
I dont need pockets, except perhaps one zippered pocket in the normal position (I hate thigh pockets, they always seem binding when high stepping).
For shorts: the same requirements, except remove the knee padding, and the short should finish just above knee joint (not too short, then they ride up).
(This post was edited by erin__b on Mar 7, 2010, 11:07 AM)
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granite_grrl
Mar 7, 2010, 2:37 PM
Post #47 of 47
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You know what? I'd just be happy if a company like Prana would start making their women's pants out of the same material as they use for their men's pants.
All you guys bitch and complain about durability. You have no idea the shitty material they make a lot of women's clothes out of.
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