|
joemor
Dec 12, 2002, 12:27 AM
Post #1 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2001
Posts: 609
|
every one knows it what we should be doing to reduce the possible distance of a fall. but all the people i watch climb nearly always reach high for the clip rather than climbing up to it. i think it applies to trad as well as i see alot of polks placing gear at eye level.
joe
|
|
|
|
|
vikasshah
Dec 12, 2002, 12:37 AM
Post #2 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 4, 2002
Posts: 40
|
I think it really depends on the stance you can find. I've seen people fall because they try to clip a bolt while still climbing through the crux. Then, when doing it again, they climb past the point they tried to clip and find a nice stance, clipping at waist level or even lower. I've climbed up past a bolt because I knew I would reach a nice ledge just above it where I could reach down and do the clip cleanly and safely. Of course, we all succumb to the temptation of clipping as soon as it is within reach at one point or another, but I think it is an important thing to train yourself not to try to clip until you can do it cleanly.
On gear, I think it's a different story because presumably you need to be in reasonably decent stance just to place the gear, and there's no excuse not to clip it once it's in.
Vikas
|
|
|
|
|
mesomorf
Dec 12, 2002, 12:37 AM
Post #3 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2002
Posts: 397
|
Placing gear as high as possible saves on the total number of pieces placed on a pitch.
It also maximizes the time spent "top roped" while leading.
But most often, when I'm leading (I rarely sport climb) I try to optimize good placements/good stances. Where this is in relation to my waist is immaterial. I sometimes clip at my ankle.
|
|
|
|
|
estwing
Dec 12, 2002, 12:40 AM
Post #4 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 344
|
I agree that we should be conscious of the extra fall distance that we expose ourselves to when we clip high. I also know from experience that I f you find yourself at a great hold, and know that you will not be falling, then clipping high is a good way to protect more ground. you also can be surprised and scared when you get to a bolt at waist level and can't clip because there are no good holds.
You have to make a decision based on the climb. Some route bolters intend for you to clip high from good holds.
Have a nice day.
Sam
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Dec 12, 2002, 12:40 AM
Post #5 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
It's not necessarily better to clip at your waist. Sure, the distance fallen would be shorter than if you were to clip overhead, but that's not the only criterion. If the clipping hold is good, go ahead and clip over your head, especially if doing so will protect a hard or risky move.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
natec
Dec 12, 2002, 12:41 AM
Post #6 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2001
Posts: 667
|
I generally always clip somewhere between waist and chest level.
It's more efficient. Learn to get used to it, it works better.
If you clip overhead from a really restful position that's ok, but if you waste precious energy that could be spent earning the redpoint you are a pussy.
|
|
|
|
|
flash5twelve
Dec 12, 2002, 12:42 AM
Post #7 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 121
|
It depends on the stance and the type of climb. I usually climb trad, which gives me more freedom to place gear where I want versus clipping a bolt. In the case of trad, I try to place gear in front of my face. There are of course exceptions to this, but it's what I shoot for. I do this for two reasons: first, I can better see and judge my placement, and second, my partner has short arms, so it's a bitch for him to clean it if I place it high. Sport climbing is a different story. Here you are forced to clip the bolts where they are from the best stance that you can find. It seems that this is usually above your head. If there is a better stance or clipping hold then I'll climb through and clip at my face or waist versus clipping high from a lousy hold.
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Dec 12, 2002, 12:43 AM
Post #8 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
I try to always clip at my waist, but everyone's right. Sometimes, the routes are bolted in a way that you'll be better off clipping high, or you'll certainly feel safer once you can reach up and clip. I know I've been on more than one route where clipping high was a very happy moment for me.
As for trad, I try to set pieces at my eye level or at my waist if I can, mostly so I can see what I am doing, since I'm still learning. Once again, I'm sure as I climb more, I'll discover that pro goes in on a case by case basis too....
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Dec 12, 2002, 12:46 AM
Post #9 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
In Spain this summer Team Asia, including the Korean guy who did Biographie, blew through the crag I was at (Rodellar). I watched them climb a few times and was very impressed to watch them clip the bolts almost as an afterthought, they would wait until the bolts were at their knees to clip. Also some of the top Euros I saw, Nicholas Favresse was one, would skip bolts entirely on the hard sections of the routes they were on, the theory being running it out makes you a better climber, more than once I saw dudes looking at monstrous whips while onsighting 5.13's because they skipped clips
|
|
|
|
|
flash5twelve
Dec 12, 2002, 12:57 AM
Post #10 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 121
|
mesomorph wrote:
"Placing gear as high as possible saves on the total number of pieces placed on a pitch."
This is true for aid climbs where you are placing your next piece from your last piece standing in your aiders, but it doesn't apply to trad. In trad climbing, there is no relationship (besides climber comfort) between gear placements. You place as many pieces as you need regardless of where your last piece was.
|
|
|
|
|
elvislegs
Dec 12, 2002, 1:22 AM
Post #11 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 3148
|
Seems to me that it's sixes. If I clip above my head, the fall with an armfull of slack is bigger, yes. But if I climb til the bolt is waist level, then try to clip and blow it that's a big fall too. So look for a stance and clip when it feels right. Unless you wan't to overlay the macho thing onto the problem, and then why clip at all, free soloing will make you a stud right?
|
|
|
|
|
apollodorus
Dec 12, 2002, 1:36 AM
Post #12 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
|
What's the big deal about clipping above your head? If you don't mind pulling the rope up to reach that high, there is no downside. As you move up, the belayer takes the rope back in.
It's SOP to place trad pro bolts as high as you can reach from the stance, so clipping above your head just goes with the territory.
Natec is right: the best thing is between chest and waist. You don't have to pull the rope up to clip, which can be a real bitch when you're nearing the end of a full 60m lead.
But, clipping from where you can rest is the best thing, usually.
|
|
|
|
|
freudian
Dec 12, 2002, 2:03 AM
Post #13 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 23, 2002
Posts: 236
|
On Sport lead, I always clip high for the extra security of being top roped for a few moves. I also don't wanna be reaching DOWN to clip.
One Trad lead, it's wherever is comfortable. eye-level is mot common for me because you gotta place your gear and see it...
Freudian
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Dec 12, 2002, 2:26 AM
Post #14 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Flash5twelve wrote:
Quote:
In trad climbing, there is no relationship (besides climber comfort) between gear placements. You place as many pieces as you need regardless of where your last piece was.
I think that in practice most climbers would end up placing fewer pieces if they clipped overhead than at waist level because they would at least feel as if they needed fewer. Say you place a piece every time your last piece is 2 feet below your feet. Then, your placements will be further apart if you place your next piece overhead than if you place it at waist level, and you'll have placed fewer pieces at the end of the pitch.
-Jay (and you still owe me a drink )
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-12-11 18:27 ]
|
|
|
|
|
bandycoot
Dec 12, 2002, 2:43 AM
Post #15 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 25, 2002
Posts: 2028
|
I personally often clip above my head because I'm on runout stuff. i mean, in the face of a 50 footer what's another 5 feet? I clip that thing as soon as I can and let out a huge sigh of relief!
|
|
|
|
|
tanner
Dec 12, 2002, 3:06 AM
Post #16 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2002
Posts: 491
|
Cliping low it alot faster. But some times it just feels good to clip high and know your being to roped for a few feet. Trad I place where I have the best stance and where I can best see my gear.
|
|
|
|
|
rodeomountain
Dec 12, 2002, 3:25 AM
Post #17 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 190
|
I may clip my draw in over my head but I always clip my rope in at my waist, it keeps me from having to over extend, but more important I don't have to put the rope in my mouth to pull extra slack. I would like for my teeth to stay in my mouth if I fall.
|
|
|
|
|
meataxe
Dec 12, 2002, 3:50 AM
Post #18 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 1162
|
Tell me if this makes sense:
It doesn't matter high or low.
EG. clip high: Say 2 feet extra... You have 2 feet less height to fall, but you have to pull 2 feet extra slack that will lengthen your fall.
Then, try to climb up 2 more feet and clip... You have 2 feet more to fall, but you have 2 feet less slack.
This is probably flawed because it assumes you fall before completing the clip and doesn't account for angles or length of draw etc.
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Dec 12, 2002, 3:12 PM
Post #19 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
If you are doing harder sport routes, you are often forced to clip at a certain stance, sometimes early(over you heard), sometimes late (at your waist). If you don;t pick the best hold to clip from, you can be making the clip VERY difficult, or even dangerous (clipping off some miserable crimp for instance).
This similarly holds true for trad routes.
There is no golden rule for "when" to clip. Every route and situation is different.
|
|
|
|
|
mrsmylie
Dec 12, 2002, 3:25 PM
Post #20 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2002
Posts: 88
|
I clip from the best stance that I find. When onsighting, I sometimes don't pick the best stance. If I fail on the onsight, and have to redpoint it, I may find a better stance after working the route. Sometimes I will even skip the clip if I don't like the stance or it is in the middle of the crux. This is all sport climbing, I don't know a thing about placing gear.
|
|
|
|
|
maiorlive
Dec 12, 2002, 3:48 PM
Post #21 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 172
|
I cringe when I see people use their teeth even though I have trouble imagining someone getting so excited by the fall that they forget to spit out the rope.
I prefer to clip closer to my waist in sport climbing. I find it easier to pull rope, easier to balance the weight of the rope, and easier to settle weight onto my feet while I'm clipping. I like the suspense build up too.
I figure the fall distances are the same, but clipping above you puts you closer to the ground when you hit the end of the rope.
W
|
|
|
|
|
mother_sheep
Dec 12, 2002, 3:54 PM
Post #22 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 18, 2002
Posts: 3984
|
When I took my first lead test at the gym, the instructor suggested that I always clip above my head. Doesn't really make sense to me. I clip from where ever I feel comfortable clipping. What's wrong with that?
|
|
|
|
|
lox
Dec 12, 2002, 6:43 PM
Post #23 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 2, 2002
Posts: 2307
|
f---ing SPORTCLIMBERS, that's who...
|
|
|
|
|
crazygrl
Dec 12, 2002, 7:29 PM
Post #24 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 101
|
I agree with Tracy
|
|
|
|
|
uncle_big_green
Dec 12, 2002, 7:46 PM
Post #25 of 46
(4618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2002
Posts: 261
|
A tale of 2 climbs at Indian Creek.
1) Incredible Hand and foot Crack (mostly 2 Camalot sized, tasty). Lots of sinker jams and lots of good stances. Most clips were at eye level or higher.
2) Black Corner (mostly green/.75 Camalot size, whaaahhh). 1 good jam and 1 or 2 good stances. Most clips were at waist level and most placements occurred with the gear below my feet. If I had done it differently, I'm sure that I would have fallen.
The moral here is that you gotta do what you gotta do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
