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RMC
Mar 10, 2010, 8:03 PM
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I've been backward planning allot- especially with my climbing technique. It's important to be ready for a problem on the route and bail off safely- And we all to be safe- right? so here is my question;
1. What configuration of webbing/rap ring/caribiner is best to support a bail off?
2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage?
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granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 8:37 PM
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Bailing is overrated. Lots of tricks out there to get you to the top of a route that you're not getting to the top of otherwise.
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acorneau
Mar 10, 2010, 8:44 PM
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RMC wrote: 1. What configuration of webbing/rap ring/caribiner is best to support a bail off?
It varies for different scenarios...
Bolted/sport could be a single biner, while some will leave a second biner on the next hanger down for redundancy.
Trad climb might mean leaving a couple of pieces of pro, a few biners and a sling or some cord.
Ice might be just some cord or nothing at all (rap rope through the ice).
In reply to: 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage?
Specifically for bailing? I don't think so. For general anchor systems and self-rescue look into the Falcon Press books:
http://www.amazon.com/...268253862&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/...268253824&sr=1-1
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qtm
Mar 10, 2010, 8:50 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Bailing is overrated. Lots of tricks out there to get you to the top of a route that you're not getting to the top of otherwise.
On the other hand, you could be bailing because of things like injury or weather.
For sport, carry a couple of "bail" biners. Clip directly to a bolt (and if you want, a 2nd to the bolt below). Don't use quicklinks as they are hard to remove and can rust in place and damage the hanger.
If you don't have a bail biner, just rap of a biner from a quickdraw, but remove the dogbone and the other biner, no point in leaving more than you have to.
I don't carry rap rings for sport.
Bailing on trad means leaving gear. I carry rap rings and webbing for fixing rap stations and anchors, but to bail off gear I have to leave a couple of biners anyway. If there's a tree handy, then yeah, webbing and rap rings.
John Long's Anchors book (2nd ed) has a lot of information about building trad anchors.
(This post was edited by qtm on Mar 10, 2010, 8:51 PM)
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olderic
Mar 10, 2010, 9:23 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Bailing is overrated. Lots of tricks out there to get you to the top of a route that you're not getting to the top of otherwise.
Yup - when I'm 2K feet off the deck and its getting dark and trying to sleet and its another 1K feet to the ridge and there is no fixed gear in sight up or down - who ya going to call? Oh yeah Granite Girl and she'll save my butt once again by reassuring me that all I need to do is grap some draws (lets hope I don't have the skinny dogbones) and stick clip my way up. Take works well too.
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granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 9:33 PM
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olderic wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Bailing is overrated. Lots of tricks out there to get you to the top of a route that you're not getting to the top of otherwise. Yup - when I'm 2K feet off the deck and its getting dark and trying to sleet and its another 1K feet to the ridge and there is no fixed gear in sight up or down - who ya going to call? Oh yeah Granite Girl and she'll save my butt once again by reassuring me that all I need to do is grap some draws (lets hope I don't have the skinny dogbones) and stick clip my way up. Take works well too.
Let's face it, there's no catch all solution for this. The OP posted in the beginners forum, so we'll assume he's not doing any big walls tomorrow. There are going to be two situation for bailing. He can't do the climb (learn some tricks to get to the top of the route) or something is forcing him off the climb such as weather or injury (what equipment do you have on you that you can leave behind?).
I hope that the OP sees that there's a lot of scenarios and a lot of different solutions. With experience hopefully he'll be able to cover most of them, but it's a little to broad a question to give a good answer to in this thread.
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olderic
Mar 10, 2010, 9:42 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: I hope that the OP sees that there's a lot of scenarios and a lot of different solutions. With experience hopefully he'll be able to cover most of them, but it's a little to broad a question to give a good answer to in this thread.
That's all true. And also sums up why this forum where answers are of the knee jerk type is a stupid resource to be using to get this type of infornation. There are lots of well written resources available and he should be pointed at one.
But in this case he (or maybe she) asked two very specific questions which might be answered without going into the bigger picture of what he shoul/should not be doing.
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bill413
Mar 11, 2010, 2:00 PM
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[personal opinion]I don't carry rap rings (anymore). I did when I was a new trad leader. Nowadays if I had to bail I'd leave a biner, plus whatever else was necessary for safety.
Webbing is good - I've tied slings around a large rock to use as my anchor. I've also used trees. But, most of the places I climb now either have rap stations somewhere near the top of the climb or I'd bail on gear I'm already carrying.[/personal opinion]
If you're rigging a rap station to leave for others to use, then rap rings are very good. If it's a bail situation, then you use whatever you have - just avoid running the rope directly over the slings.
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dingus
Mar 11, 2010, 2:15 PM
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I make do with whatever is at hand. I don't make a habit of carrying any special bail gear at all. Occasionally I might tote a rap ring if I think an established rap route may need one.
DMT
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shu2kill
Mar 15, 2010, 10:36 PM
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qtm wrote: For sport, carry a couple of "bail" biners. Clip directly to a bolt (and if you want, a 2nd to the bolt below). Don't use quicklinks as they are hard to remove and can rust in place and damage the hanger.
where i climb, its common practice to leave a quicklink if you have to abandon a route. reason is, i climb in Mexico, so, in a country where the minimum wage is $5 per day, we cannot afford leaving a biner. besides, climbing equipment is really expensive here. the cheapest biner i could locally buy is like $14, almost 3 times more expensive than the cheapest biner you can get in the US.
we have picked up leaver biners that other climbers left (not locals), and we used them for leaver biners too. but around here, is very common to see a quicklink hanging from everyone's harness. i have one on each of my harnesses, and a couple more on my rope bag. i have only bought 2, but i have picked up several of them on routes. in case they are really tight, i always carry some tools on my pack to tighten the loose hanger i may find. so if a person in my group sees the quicklink but cannot retrieve it, the next one will climb with the tool to remove it....
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cracklover
Mar 15, 2010, 11:07 PM
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RMC wrote: 1. What configuration of webbing/rap ring/caribiner is best to support a bail off?
Either a chunk of cordelette or nylon webbing securely tied around a tree with a rap ring or two threaded on it.
In reply to: 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage?
Anchors and More Anchors by John Long.
GO
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dswink
Mar 16, 2010, 5:54 AM
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As a relatively new leader, I have bailed because of difficulty, getting off route, weather and impending nightfall.
I wrap 8 feet of webbing around a leaver biner and tape on a very small knife. The biner clips to the back of my harness.
I don't start a route with the intention of bailing but knowing there is an exit without leaving much gear has allowed me to climb harder routes with less worry.
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wallwombat
Mar 21, 2010, 3:28 PM
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No one sells rap rings here in Australia so consequently no one uses them.
Personally I just make do with what I have got.
If I'm on a multipitch route, I'll have half a dozen shoulder length slings and a few spare biners with me anyway. Normally, I try to have at least two of the shoulder length slings of the tied variety rather than sewn.
I normally have some kind of tape on me that I can use to tape a biner's gate shut and make a 'poor man's' locker.
If I'm climbing alpine rock and have a pack, I'll throw 20 ft of webbing in the pack.
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jt512
Mar 21, 2010, 4:45 PM
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cracklover wrote: RMC wrote: 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage? Anchors and More Anchors by John Long. GO
Haven't those both been superseded by Long's Climbing Anchors, 2ed?
Jay
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wallwombat
Mar 21, 2010, 5:42 PM
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jt512 wrote: cracklover wrote: RMC wrote: 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage? Anchors and More Anchors by John Long. GO Haven't those both been superseded by Long's Climbing Anchors, 2ed? Jay
Which is soon to be superceded by Long's Just When You Thought You Knew Everything About Anchors.
(This post was edited by wallwombat on Mar 22, 2010, 2:13 AM)
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davidnn5
Mar 21, 2010, 9:18 PM
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wallwombat wrote: jt512 wrote: cracklover wrote: RMC wrote: 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage? Anchors and More Anchors by John Long. GO Haven't those both been superseded by Long's Climbing Anchors, 2ed? Jay Which is soon to be superceded by Long's Just When You Thought You Knew Everything About Anchors.
Not to be confused with The Complete Idiot's Guide to Building Anchors and Not Dying When Using Them, by John LongFallingIfYouFuckThisUp?
(This post was edited by davidnn5 on Mar 21, 2010, 9:18 PM)
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cracklover
Mar 22, 2010, 2:09 PM
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jt512 wrote: cracklover wrote: RMC wrote: 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage? Anchors and More Anchors by John Long. GO Haven't those both been superseded by Long's Climbing Anchors, 2ed? Jay
Yes, good point. To whomever is reading this - best to just see what the latest Anchor book out is. As of this writing, that's the 2nd edition by John Long - and it's not just a minor rewrite, it has some very different info, a different approach, etc. Definitely don't settle for the 1st edition if you can help it.
GO
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scotty1974
Mar 30, 2010, 2:59 PM
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On alpine multi-pitch climbs I take about 20ft. of 1 inch tubular webbing, one (sometimes 2) rap rings and a old oval biner.
The rap rings are great because they only cost about $2.50 so are cheap to replace. The oval biners I might pick up at those annual climbing swapmeets. I'll buy them for a $1-2 and use them for racking my nuts etc and keep some for bail biners. Plus by racking your passive w/ these, if needed you can put them w/ other gear and cannabalize the biner for a bail.
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kachoong
Mar 30, 2010, 3:10 PM
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RMC wrote: I've been backward planning allot- especially with my climbing technique. It's important to be ready for a problem on the route and bail off safely- And we all to be safe- right? so here is my question; 1. What configuration of webbing/rap ring/caribiner is best to support a bail off? 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage?
Your best piece of gear for bailing is your noggin... Use it wisely!
Also, start early... real early if you have to... Timing is one of the most critical elements of a climbers arsenal. When you build each anchor think of Time as one of the key ingredients.
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cracklover
Mar 30, 2010, 3:40 PM
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kachoong wrote: RMC wrote: I've been backward planning allot- especially with my climbing technique. It's important to be ready for a problem on the route and bail off safely- And we all to be safe- right? so here is my question; 1. What configuration of webbing/rap ring/caribiner is best to support a bail off? 2. is there a video or book available exclusively? defining anchor usage? Your best piece of gear for bailing is your noggin... Use it wisely!
Exactly. At that last rap to get down, when you have no gear big enough for the offwidth crack, your partner can just stick your noggin in there, wedge it in tight, and rap to safety!
Oh wait, did you mean something else?
GO
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scottek67
Apr 1, 2010, 8:11 AM
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grab one of these! comes with a bail biner and while you are bailing enjoy a cold one!
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mrtristan
Apr 1, 2010, 6:21 PM
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For trad and multipitch stuff, I always have at least one tied 24" (that's the length of the loop when it's tied) sling and a bail biner or quick link. It's saved me more than once.
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