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waveknave
Jul 16, 2010, 12:32 AM
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Does anybody rappel using an autoblock device in autoblock mode? I know a prusik is a better option for security but what if you're caught without one?
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dugl33
Jul 16, 2010, 12:42 AM
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waveknave wrote: Does anybody rappel using an autoblock device in autoblock mode? I know a prusik is a better option for security but what if you're caught without one?
Would this be instead of rapping in atc mode or are you talking about using two devices?
Also, there are friction knots that work on webbing, too. It would be unusual to knot be able to rig up something... klemheist, bachmann, autoblock webbing.
?
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johnwesely
Jul 16, 2010, 12:42 AM
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waveknave wrote: Does anybody rappel using an autoblock device in autoblock mode? I know a prusik is a better option for security but what if you're caught without one?
Autoblock like an ATC guide?
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waveknave
Jul 16, 2010, 12:48 AM
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Sorry for not being clear. As an example, using an autoblobk device like an ATC guide where you would clip your belay loop in the anchor hole of the ATC guide. If you let go of the brake hand, the autoblock would kick in. The downside is that you have to leverage the ATC guide to be able to lower but once you stop with the leverage, you would stop descending.
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dugl33
Jul 16, 2010, 12:52 AM
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waveknave wrote: Sorry for not being clear. As an example, using an autoblobk device like an ATC guide where you would clip your belay loop in the anchor hole of the ATC guide. If you let go of the brake hand, the autoblock would kick in. The downside is that you have to leverage the ATC guide to be able to lower but once you stop with the leverage, you would stop descending.
I've considered this as a way to ascend the line but not to rap. Sounds like you understand the difficulties of rapping this way. The ironic thing is you will need some cord or a skinny runner through the lever hole to lever it up. If you have this cord, then there's your prusik or bachmann materials.
Probably worth experimenting with sometime. Ascend a few feet and then try coming down.
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waveknave
Jul 16, 2010, 12:55 AM
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As you probably know, the autoblock device can be leveraged with a biner instead of a sling. Also, I've never tried it yet, but perhaps it can be leverage with just the hand as well.
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adatesman
Jul 16, 2010, 1:00 AM
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waveknave
Jul 16, 2010, 1:07 AM
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I hear you about the leverage. You'd probably have to be a monster to leverage it with just the hand. I don't think it would be so binary though because you'd still be able to modulate your hand on the brake rope.
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dugl33
Jul 16, 2010, 1:08 AM
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waveknave wrote: As you probably know, the autoblock device can be leveraged with a biner instead of a sling. Also, I've never tried it yet, but perhaps it can be leverage with just the hand as well.
I think the need for leverage would be pretty much constant, and then you'd probably struggle between releasing friction entirely and locking up entirely.
I'd use the extra biner alongside the first one for more friction in the standard hfm atc setup.
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johnwesely
Jul 16, 2010, 1:19 AM
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I would much rather just be extra careful than deal with the autoblock.
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TarHeelEMT
Jul 16, 2010, 1:24 AM
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johnwesely wrote: I would much rather just be extra careful than deal with the autoblock.
I second this. Even if you don't have a prussik, you can always use a klemheist to back up your rappel. In fact, I never use a prussik - just the klemheist. If you're in a situation where you have to rappel, but don't have at least a sling available, then you should probably rethink what you're doing.
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sittingduck
Jul 16, 2010, 1:40 AM
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waveknave wrote: Does anybody rappel using an autoblock device in autoblock mode? I know a prusik is a better option for security but what if you're caught without one?
I wanted to test this some weeks ago with my Reverso 3. I tried to rig it on a rappel and was not able to make it work. I did not have time to fiddle around with the setup and ended up rigging it the conventional way.
The reason I wanted to try this was that I saw a climber using that method a couple of years ago. At least that is what I thought he was doing.
When he released the brake hand the auto-block would lock, and when he pulled on the rope the auto-block would let out rope again. It did not look like he had to use a lot of force at all to unblock the device.
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adatesman
Jul 16, 2010, 1:46 AM
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adatesman
Jul 16, 2010, 1:50 AM
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minibiter
Jul 16, 2010, 1:53 AM
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I'll second this guess. That's how I usually rappel. It's nice for cleaning routes or if you're going to have to do things with your hands on the way down because you can let go whenever you want and the rap stop right away.
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sittingduck
Jul 16, 2010, 2:08 AM
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adatesman wrote: sittingduck wrote: waveknave wrote: Does anybody rappel using an autoblock device in autoblock mode? I know a prusik is a better option for security but what if you're caught without one? I wanted to test this some weeks ago with my Reverso 3. I tried to rig it on a rappel and was not able to make it work. I did not have time to fiddle around with the setup and ended up rigging it the conventional way. The reason I wanted to try this was that I saw a climber using that method a couple of years ago. At least that is what I thought he was doing. When he released the brake hand the auto-block would lock, and when he pulled on the rope the auto-block would let out rope again. It did not look like he had to use a lot of force at all to unblock the device. My guess is he had an autoblock/prusik attached to his leg loop on the brake side of the device, which was rigged normally. Not much force is applied to it that way, which makes it easy to get the rope moving again.
You are probably right.
What still bugs me is that seeing the setup made me think/understand "rappel in auto-block mode". If I meet the climber again I'll try to shake the setup out of him.
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dan2see
Jul 16, 2010, 3:14 AM
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My ATC Guide is great for rappels. The friction is good, it's very reliable in summer and winter. Almost as easy as my 8.
But I use the "Guide" in "normal" mode!
Sometimes I also attach a prussik, either above or below. That's another great trick for safety and convenience.
But I use the "Guide" in "normal" mode!
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avalon420
Jul 16, 2010, 4:31 AM
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Yes, you can, but its strenuous and stupid (but not dangerous. What cha' do is, attatch a loop to the BLOCKING carabiner, and step down on WHILE HOLDING THE ROPE IN BRAKING POSITION. Strenuous as hell on rappel because you are rapping with all your weight on your foot instead of the harness, and thereby very stupid/ pointless. Better way is just put a prussik on the rope , BUT NOT ATTATCHED TO YOUR LEG LOOP. The leg loop method is old, out-dated, and NOT ACCETED BY THE UIAA. In a real rappeling emrgency (i.e. rock fall, smashing face into over hang, etc.) your body CAN tilt, your leg loop CAN be pulled into the device (unlocking the auto block), in wich case you WILL deck. This HAS happened.
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Rudmin
Jul 16, 2010, 4:35 AM
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I haven't tried this, but I imagine it would work:
clip the reverso to your harness in autoblock mode. Clip a sling or daisy or something to the carabiner that the rope runs over. Put your foot in the sling and weight that carabiner when you want to rappel like normal. Let go and weight the other side when you want to stop.
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waveknave
Jul 16, 2010, 4:38 AM
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Good tip on the leg loop. I like the evolution. Thanks.
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avalon420
Jul 16, 2010, 4:44 AM
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And one more note. There is no need to drop your second when lowering. Please, for your followers sake, do this instead. Clip a sling into the blocking carabinerand run it through 'biner ABOE the device, then redirect the standing end throug another 'biner also ABOVE the device. Hold onto the braking rope, and step into the sling. Then lower as usual. this method essentialy puts the device in "standard" mode
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clc
Jul 16, 2010, 4:47 AM
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use a grigri
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climbingaggie03
Jul 16, 2010, 5:23 AM
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avalon420 wrote: Better way is just put a prussik on the rope , BUT NOT ATTATCHED TO YOUR LEG LOOP. The leg loop method is old, out-dated, and NOT ACCETED BY THE UIAA. In a real rappeling emrgency (i.e. rock fall, smashing face into over hang, etc.) your body CAN tilt, your leg loop CAN be pulled into the device (unlocking the auto block), in wich case you WILL deck. This HAS happened.
where should you attach the prussic?
I'm aware of the danger of getting the prussic and I've always just kept my prussic loop short and been careful.
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patto
Jul 16, 2010, 6:22 AM
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climbingaggie03 wrote: avalon420 wrote: Better way is just put a prussik on the rope , BUT NOT ATTATCHED TO YOUR LEG LOOP. The leg loop method is old, out-dated, and NOT ACCETED BY THE UIAA. In a real rappeling emrgency (i.e. rock fall, smashing face into over hang, etc.) your body CAN tilt, your leg loop CAN be pulled into the device (unlocking the auto block), in wich case you WILL deck. This HAS happened. where should you attach the prussic? I'm aware of the danger of getting the prussic and I've always just kept my prussic loop short and been careful.
Leg loop attaching is lazy, needs to be perfect length to even remotely work and is not always effective. If you want to do it properly extend you belay device off your harness. All this is explained in nice pretty pictures in the Petzl Catalogue. Just download it.
**I've never extended my belay device. I'm lazy.
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