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adatesman
May 8, 2010, 5:32 PM
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JimTitt
May 8, 2010, 6:33 PM
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Thanks Airic, wondered what went wrong!
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wiki
May 9, 2010, 4:17 AM
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hotgemini wrote: Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the efforts to help. The camp carabiner is mild steel and a solid gate, we haven't had any success with stopping solid gate carabiners from filling up with dirt and jamming. Renob don't really manufacture anything, they merely assemble anchors together out of readily available stainless hardware. They do not offer a pin-captive stainless steel wiregate carabiner. The SMC captive eye clip is intended to hold webbing place on the carabiner (eg. to stop the carabiner rotating), essentially a metal version of Petzl's String. The main area I'm focussed on is located smack bang in the centre of the CBD of a reasonably sized city, so vandal/theft resistance is why I'm seeking the bar-captive design, not merely stopping rotating and whilst again, I do really appreciate the effort, it won't do what I'm seeking. Thus far at least, unfortunately it may be acorneau who is closest to the mark, but I'll keep looking before I start investigating other options (eg. modifying wichard #2337s to take a captive pin) So I don't waste peoples' time covering options I've already looked at, lets say I'm pretty comfortable that none of the products offered by: Black Diamond Petzl Wild Country DMM ISC Kong Faders Fixe Omega Pacific CAMP Mammut Singing Rock Raumer Stubai Wichard Metolius Rock Empire Trango Simond fit the bill. In fact I'll even be more dificult and say that I'd like the carabiner to be reasonably priced too (so not only am I seeking a non-existent product, I'm demanding a good deal :P ) Anyone got any leads? -Adam.
Have you tried the brand "Usang"? They copy other peoples stuff... http://www.usang.com.tw/
You need to contact them for a catologue , it isn't on the interwebs...
I believe they could custom make some for you if you need enough of them - if they don't already.
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woland84
May 9, 2010, 5:08 AM
Post #29 of 54
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hotgemini wrote: Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the efforts to help. The camp carabiner is mild steel and a solid gate, we haven't had any success with stopping solid gate carabiners from filling up with dirt and jamming. Renob don't really manufacture anything, they merely assemble anchors together out of readily available stainless hardware. They do not offer a pin-captive stainless steel wiregate carabiner. The SMC captive eye clip is intended to hold webbing place on the carabiner (eg. to stop the carabiner rotating), essentially a metal version of Petzl's String. The main area I'm focussed on is located smack bang in the centre of the CBD of a reasonably sized city, so vandal/theft resistance is why I'm seeking the bar-captive design, not merely stopping rotating and whilst again, I do really appreciate the effort, it won't do what I'm seeking. Thus far at least, unfortunately it may be acorneau who is closest to the mark, but I'll keep looking before I start investigating other options (eg. modifying wichard #2337s to take a captive pin) So I don't waste peoples' time covering options I've already looked at, lets say I'm pretty comfortable that none of the products offered by: Black Diamond Petzl Wild Country DMM ISC Kong Faders Fixe Omega Pacific CAMP Mammut Singing Rock Raumer Stubai Wichard Metolius Rock Empire Trango Simond fit the bill. In fact I'll even be more dificult and say that I'd like the carabiner to be reasonably priced too (so not only am I seeking a non-existent product, I'm demanding a good deal :P ) Anyone got any leads? -Adam.
email climbtech (makers of the removable bolt). climbtech.com
they make a stainless solid gate fix draw and an aluminum wire gate. they may hook you up with a custom batch of stainless wiregates at a good price. I know they have a stainless cable perma-draw coming out soon, not sure if it is wiregate.
climbtech is a smaller operation, run by climbers out of central texas. they make some really nice gear.
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hotgemini
May 13, 2010, 12:11 AM
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wiki wrote: Have you tried the brand "Usang"? They copy other peoples stuff... http://www.usang.com.tw/ You need to contact them for a catologue , it isn't on the interwebs... I believe they could custom make some for you if you need enough of them - if they don't already.
That is quite possibly the lead I'm after, thanks!
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jeremy11
May 13, 2010, 5:12 AM
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have you considered getting a standard stainless steel wiregate then doing something else for the captive eye function?
For ropes courses, I've used replacement MSR snowshoe binding straps, then punch two holes bigger, with 4 holes in between, and squeeze it on over the biner. Works great for keeping the rope in place so it is easier for kids to clip in.
This wouldn't fit the anti theft criteria, and I don't know how long it would last in the weather.
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hotgemini
May 14, 2010, 8:01 AM
Post #32 of 54
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jeremy11 wrote: have you considered getting a standard stainless steel wiregate then doing something else for the captive eye function?
You mean like where I said
hotgemini wrote: 2) Modify an existing product (such as the aforementioned wichard carbine hook) to include a captive eye, but to do this in good faith would oblige several destructive tests, careful quality control and would attract liability that I really don't want.
If so, yes, I have considered it at some length, but thank you for the suggestion.
jeremy11 wrote: For ropes courses, I've used replacement MSR snowshoe binding straps, then punch two holes bigger, with 4 holes in between, and squeeze it on over the biner. Works great for keeping the rope in place so it is easier for kids to clip in. This wouldn't fit the anti theft criteria, and I don't know how long it would last in the weather.
Options such as stainless hoseclamps, nylon or stainless zip ties and stainless tie-wire have been tried at the main crag in question and elsewhere.
None of them really offer particularly appealing solutions particularly as we're working towards legitimising the installation of hardware with the land managers.
I'm quite patient and good at taking the long view on such things. Usang don't currently offer a product which meets my requirements, but I'll follow it up with them and see if anything comes of it.
Is there anyone else interested in such a product? I can't imagine that this is the only crag with such issues.
-Adam.
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Rudmin
May 14, 2010, 1:40 PM
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hotgemini wrote: jeremy11 wrote: have you considered getting a standard stainless steel wiregate then doing something else for the captive eye function? You mean like where I said hotgemini wrote: 2) Modify an existing product (such as the aforementioned wichard carbine hook) to include a captive eye, but to do this in good faith would oblige several destructive tests, careful quality control and would attract liability that I really don't want. If so, yes, I have considered it at some length, but thank you for the suggestion. jeremy11 wrote: For ropes courses, I've used replacement MSR snowshoe binding straps, then punch two holes bigger, with 4 holes in between, and squeeze it on over the biner. Works great for keeping the rope in place so it is easier for kids to clip in. This wouldn't fit the anti theft criteria, and I don't know how long it would last in the weather. Options such as stainless hoseclamps, nylon or stainless zip ties and stainless tie-wire have been tried at the main crag in question and elsewhere. None of them really offer particularly appealing solutions particularly as we're working towards legitimising the installation of hardware with the land managers. I'm quite patient and good at taking the long view on such things. Usang don't currently offer a product which meets my requirements, but I'll follow it up with them and see if anything comes of it. Is there anyone else interested in such a product? I can't imagine that this is the only crag with such issues. -Adam.
Well the fact that you are unwilling to add a mallion to your anchor is pretty unique. Most places would take a stainless wiregate and stick it on a mallion with one of those captive wire devices that got posted on this thread.
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acorneau
May 14, 2010, 3:02 PM
Post #34 of 54
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Rudmin wrote: Well the fact that you are unwilling to add a mallion to your anchor is pretty unique. Most places would take a stainless wiregate and stick it on a mallion with one of those captive wire devices that got posted on this thread.
I completely agree. Adam, I think you'll need to compromise one of your requirements to make a solution happen.
If you can tell us why you're not willing to either add a quicklink or replace the entire hanger/ring/biner combo then maybe we'll be able to come up with a solution. Otherwise, I think you're SOL.
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adatesman
May 14, 2010, 4:13 PM
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Rudmin
May 14, 2010, 4:59 PM
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adatesman wrote: Hmm... On further thought, if your main reason for wanting captive eye is theft prevention then perhaps the SMC Captive Eye Wire Keeper may actually work (with a bit of modification), provided it snaps in place over the biner rather than being clipped through and rotated. What I'm thinking is once it's installed on the biner&bolt simply make it impossible to remove the keeper by either crimping piece of metal tube over it (slit the tube lengthwise, slide over and then smash with a pliers) or slipping on a piece of nylon tube and filling it with epoxy. Either would be effective enough to prevent casual theft and both are pretty quick and easy to do.
From the photos it looks like it is a single solid piece that is put in place before you attach a quick link. You would have to hacksaw and bend it to be able to clip it over a biner that is already installed.
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adatesman
May 14, 2010, 5:18 PM
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adatesman
May 14, 2010, 5:26 PM
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bill413
May 14, 2010, 5:33 PM
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Cut it, mount biner, wrap it around, solder closed.
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adatesman
May 14, 2010, 5:40 PM
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caughtinside
May 14, 2010, 5:59 PM
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You could always just use ordinary biners and use some pliers to twist some tire wire around them for a ghetto but effective theft prevention method.
if you guys are wearing out steel though, sounds like a lot of use.
I wish we'd stop with all the chains, steel and exotic anchor pieces and just have leaver biners on every anchor. The main advantage is that leaver biners are cheap, and any climber can replace a worn one. You don't need special tools, you don't have to haul a bunch of hardware to the crag, you don't have to have been climbing for 10 years to know what you're doing, you just switch out a worn biner for a fresh one.
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adatesman
May 14, 2010, 6:45 PM
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vegastradguy
May 15, 2010, 5:30 PM
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You really ought to consider swapping the existing hangers out to standard hangers so you can add a quicklink to the system- easy, field serviceable, and looks clean.
we're starting to do this in red rock with mussy hooks- looks great, easy clip and lower, and if you've got a wrench, takes about 5 minutes to swap out the old mussys with new and replace the locktite we use to keep the quicklinks closed.
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hotgemini
Jun 15, 2010, 10:56 PM
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So I've found a source for a carabiner with these features, however the minimum order quantity is greater than my foreseeable needs and financial means.
So the new question is, who else would be potentially be interested in an order of 50+ (or preferably 100+) stainless steel, wiregate, EN12275 certified, captive-pin carabiners?
Have approached jim titt, ASCA, liberty mountain and some australian climbing wholesalers with varying degress of success. On my 'to contact' list this morning is the main kalymnos route re-equipper, the main NZ bolting supplier, climbZA and chinaclimb.
Any other thoughts?
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psprings
Jun 16, 2010, 3:26 AM
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adatesman wrote: Nope, it's a piece of wire... I've never actually seen one in person, but it looks to me like it's intended to snap into place rather than rotating around. EDIT- Apparently Trango sells them and has a bigger pic on their site: [image]http://www.trango.com/image/cache/Captive_Eye_Wire_49ba94cb74760-500x500.jpg[/image]
ps- I like Omega Pacific's Steel Wiregates: 
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hotgemini
Jun 17, 2010, 8:38 AM
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and after all of that, it looks like I've found someone who already does an EN12275-rated, stainless steel, wiregate, captive-pin carabiner. So I no longer need to proceed with organising a custom manufacturing run.
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hotgemini
Aug 18, 2010, 3:12 AM
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mattm wrote: Pretty sure this is the answer he was looking for... or already found [image]http://www.edelrid.de/images/produkte/edelrid/05-Hardware08/Flexor-Steel-Set.jpg[/image] From Edelrid http://www.edelrid.de/...emid=786&lang=en
Interesting, it is the carabiner I found, however I found it from the manufacturer (which isn't edelrid).
-Adam.
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mattm
Aug 18, 2010, 3:14 AM
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hotgemini wrote: mattm wrote: Pretty sure this is the answer he was looking for... or already found [image]http://www.edelrid.de/images/produkte/edelrid/05-Hardware08/Flexor-Steel-Set.jpg[/image] From Edelrid http://www.edelrid.de/...emid=786&lang=enInteresting, it is the carabiner I found, however I found it from the manufacturer (which isn't edelrid). -Adam.
Agreed - That is interesting. Who makes the carabiner then? I'm not really looking for full draws either as I am in the same boat as you, gear needs wise.
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