Forums: Climbing Information: General:
Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before.
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for General

Premier Sponsor:

 


kobaz


Aug 23, 2010, 2:17 PM
Post #1 of 20 (2721 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 726

Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before.
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

http://www.nytimes.com/...rvice&st=cse


(This post was edited by kobaz on Aug 23, 2010, 2:17 PM)


wonderwoman


Aug 23, 2010, 2:21 PM
Post #2 of 20 (2710 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [kobaz] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post


You have to sign in to read whatever this link is referring to. I can't see it.


cruxstacean


Aug 23, 2010, 2:26 PM
Post #3 of 20 (2694 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 5, 2010
Posts: 174

Re: [wonderwoman] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

http://www.bugmenot.com/view/nytimes.com


Colinhoglund


Aug 23, 2010, 2:41 PM
Post #4 of 20 (2665 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 5, 2008
Posts: 338

Re: [cruxstacean] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

All I can say is wow and *facepalm*. We live in an age of technological stupidity.


wonderwoman


Aug 23, 2010, 2:47 PM
Post #5 of 20 (2647 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [cruxstacean] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post


Ha! I am now nytcreeper! Thanks! It worked!


Partner devkrev


Aug 23, 2010, 3:07 PM
Post #6 of 20 (2623 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 933

Re: [kobaz] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post


"here, hold my beer"


wonderwoman


Aug 23, 2010, 3:13 PM
Post #7 of 20 (2601 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [devkrev] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This article confirms my suspicion that lack of a hairdryer does indeed classify as an emergency.


lena_chita
Moderator

Aug 23, 2010, 6:20 PM
Post #8 of 20 (2447 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087

Re: [wonderwoman] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
This article confirms my suspicion that lack of a hairdryer does indeed classify as an emergency.

Absolutely!


gmggg


Aug 23, 2010, 7:54 PM
Post #9 of 20 (2343 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 2099

Re: [lena_chita] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
This article confirms my suspicion that lack of a hairdryer does indeed classify as an emergency.

Absolutely!

You two need one of these:




(This post was edited by gmggg on Aug 23, 2010, 7:54 PM)
Attachments: spotdry.jpg (29.3 KB)


caughtinside


Aug 23, 2010, 7:56 PM
Post #10 of 20 (2338 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603

Re: [gmggg] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post




gmggg


Aug 23, 2010, 8:01 PM
Post #11 of 20 (2325 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 2099

Re: [caughtinside] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

caughtinside wrote:
[image]http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/08/04/chris_russo_uses_princess_vespas__5.png[/image]

If he gets lost you just need one of these:




patmay81


Aug 23, 2010, 8:02 PM
Post #12 of 20 (2324 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081

Re: [lena_chita] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
This article confirms my suspicion that lack of a hairdryer does indeed classify as an emergency.

Absolutely!
Its actually my industrial strength hair dryer, and I can't live without it!!!!!


banjolele


Aug 24, 2010, 2:20 AM
Post #13 of 20 (2172 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 44

Re: [kobaz] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Article text so people don't need to screw around:

In reply to:
Technology Leads More Park Visitors Into Trouble

In reply to:
Cathy Hayes was cracking jokes as she recorded a close encounter with a buffalo on her camera in a recent visit to Yellowstone National Park.

“Watch Donald get gored,” she said as her companion hustled toward a grazing one-ton beast for a closer shot with his own camera.

Seconds later, as if on cue, the buffalo lowered its head, pawed the ground and charged, injuring, as it turns out, Ms. Hayes.

“We were about 30, 35 feet, and I zoomed in on him, but that wasn’t far enough, because they are fast,” she recounted later in a YouTube video displaying her bruised and cut legs.

The national parks’ history is full of examples of misguided visitors feeding bears, putting children on buffalos for photos and dipping into geysers despite signs warning of scalding temperatures.

But today, as an ever more wired and interconnected public visits the parks in rising numbers — July was a record month for visitors at Yellowstone — rangers say that technology often figures into such mishaps.

People with cellphones call rangers from mountaintops to request refreshments or a guide; in Jackson Hole, Wyo., one lost hiker even asked for hot chocolate.

A French teenager was injured after plunging 75 feet this month from the South Rim of the Grand Canyon when he backed up while taking pictures. And last fall, a group of hikers in the canyon called in rescue helicopters three times by pressing the emergency button on their satellite location device. When rangers arrived the second time, the hikers explained that their water supply “tasted salty.”

“Because of having that electronic device, people have an expectation that they can do something stupid and be rescued,” said Jackie Skaggs, spokeswoman for Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming.

“Every once in a while we get a call from someone who has gone to the top of a peak, the weather has turned and they are confused about how to get down and they want someone to personally escort them,” Ms. Skaggs said. “The answer is that you are up there for the night.”

The National Park Service does not keep track of what percentage of its search and rescue missions, which have been climbing for the last five years and topped 3,500 in 2009, are technology related. But in an effort to home in on “contributing factors” to park accidents, the service recently felt compelled to add “inattention to surroundings” to more old-fashioned causes like “darkness” and “animals.”

The service acknowledges that the new technologies have benefits as well. They can and do save lives when calls come from people who really are in trouble.

The park service itself has put technology to good use in countering the occasional unruliness of visitors. Last summer, several men who thought they had managed to urinate undetected into the Old Faithful geyser in Yellowstone were surprised to be confronted by rangers shortly after their stunt. It turns out that the park had installed a 24-hour camera so people could experience Old Faithful’s majesty online. Viewers spotted the men in action and called to alert the park.

In an era when most people experience the wild mostly through television shows that may push the boundaries of appropriateness for entertainment, rangers say people can wildly miscalculate the risks of their antics.

In an extreme instance in April, two young men from Las Vegas were killed in Zion National Park in Utah while trying to float a hand-built log raft down the Virgin River. A park investigation found that the men “did not have whitewater rafting experience, and had limited camping experience, little food and no overnight gear.”

“They told their father that they intended to record their entire trip on video camera as an entry into the ‘Man vs. Wild’competition” on television, investigators wrote.

Far more common but no less perilous, park workers say, are visitors who arrive with cellphones or GPS devices and little else — sometimes not even water — and find themselves in trouble. Such visitors often acknowledge that they have pushed themselves too far because they believe that in a bind, the technology can save them.

It does not always work out that way. “We have seen people who have solely relied on GPS technology but were not using common sense or maps and compasses, and it leads them astray,” said Kyle Patterson, a spokesman for Rocky Mountain National Park, just outside Denver.

Like a lot of other national parks, Rocky Mountain does not allow cellphone towers, so service that visitors may take for granted is spotty at best. “Sometimes when they call 911, it goes to a communications center in Nebraska or Wyoming,” Mr. Patterson said. “And that can take a long time to sort out.”

One of the most frustrating new technologies for the parks to deal with, rangers say, are the personal satellite messaging devices that can send out an emergency signal but are not capable of two-way communication. (Globalstar Inc., the manufacturer of SPOT brand devices, says new models allow owners to send a message with the help request.)

In some cases, said Keith Lober, the ranger in charge of search and rescue at Yosemite National Park in California, the calls “come from people who don’t need the 911 service, but they take the SPOT and at the first sign of trouble, they hit the panic button.”

But without two-way communication, the rangers cannot evaluate the seriousness of the call, so they respond as if it were an emergency.

Last fall, two men with teenage sons pressed the help button on a device they were carrying as they hiked the challenging backcountry of Grand Canyon National Park. Search and rescue sent a helicopter, but the men declined to board, saying they had activated the device because they were short on water.

The group’s leader had hiked the Grand Canyon once before, but the other man had little backpacking experience. Rangers reported that the leader told them that without the device, “we would have never attempted this hike.”

The group activated the device again the next evening. Darkness prevented a park helicopter from flying in, but the Arizona Department of Public Safety sent in a helicopter whose crew could use night vision equipment.

The hikers were found and again refused rescue. They said they had been afraid of dehydration because the local water “tasted salty.” They were provided with water.

Helicopter trips into the park can cost as much as $3,400 an hour, said Maureen Oltrogge, a spokeswoman for Grand Canyon National Park.

So perhaps it is no surprise that when the hikers pressed the button again the following morning, park personnel gave them no choice but to return home. The leader was issued a citation for creating hazardous conditions in the parks.


Bats


Aug 24, 2010, 2:38 AM
Post #14 of 20 (2154 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 27, 2007
Posts: 486

Re: [banjolele] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I hope the park service and the SARs charged them for the false calls. I know the EMS here does, unless it was a third party who made the call. Bogus!


dr_feelgood


Aug 24, 2010, 12:23 PM
Post #15 of 20 (2015 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060

Re: [Bats] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

darwin returns!


kobaz


Aug 25, 2010, 5:22 AM
Post #16 of 20 (1873 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 726

Re: [Bats] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Bats wrote:
I hope the park service and the SARs charged them for the false calls. I know the EMS here does, unless it was a third party who made the call. Bogus!

Yeah.. my thoughts exactly.

Sorry about the login-required nytimes link, the site that I got it has a passthrough deal with nyt to not require logins.

Completely ridiculous about the party who was short on water who called in TWICE and were not in need of rescue. They should have been fined on the first call.


rangerrob


Aug 25, 2010, 12:58 PM
Post #17 of 20 (1786 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 8, 2003
Posts: 641

Re: [kobaz] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

So, what do you consider an emergency? Who creates the guidelines for what an emergency is? I knwo some people who would crawl on bloody stumps before they would ever let someone rescue them. Others would freak out if their headlamp batteries went dead.

And who wants to be the preparedness police? What constitues adequate backcountry gear? Does that mean going lightweight on a backcountry alpine route will get you in trouble with the law? These are dangerous lines you are suggesting we cross.

My suggestion is this...when someone activates a personal locator beacon because they are out of water....go get them, hold a huge press conference and haul them in front of the cameras and reporters and let them explain to the media exactly what they did. Then make it clear how much it cost the taxpayers of the state, or the federal government to "rescue" this person. I think you might get a little bit of chagrin on their faces then, and then maybe other dunces out there in suburbialand willl read it and get the idea.


blueeyedclimber


Aug 25, 2010, 3:26 PM
Post #18 of 20 (1737 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [rangerrob] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

rangerrob wrote:
So, what do you consider an emergency? Who creates the guidelines for what an emergency is? I knwo some people who would crawl on bloody stumps before they would ever let someone rescue them. Others would freak out if their headlamp batteries went dead.

And who wants to be the preparedness police? What constitues adequate backcountry gear? Does that mean going lightweight on a backcountry alpine route will get you in trouble with the law? These are dangerous lines you are suggesting we cross.

My suggestion is this...when someone activates a personal locator beacon because they are out of water....go get them, hold a huge press conference and haul them in front of the cameras and reporters and let them explain to the media exactly what they did. Then make it clear how much it cost the taxpayers of the state, or the federal government to "rescue" this person. I think you might get a little bit of chagrin on their faces then, and then maybe other dunces out there in suburbialand willl read it and get the idea.

Agreed. These people should not have had the option of staying. They signaled a rescue beacon, then they are getting rescued.

Josh


bill413


Aug 25, 2010, 11:49 PM
Post #19 of 20 (1639 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674

Re: [dr_feelgood] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
darwin returns!

lf you want to be cynical about it, the problem is no, he doesn't. Previously, people could pay a high price for unpreparedness. Now, they can call for help because of a mild water shortage. Or because they want a personal guide to show them the way back.

Now we are more shielded from the fallout of our stupidity. Or bad luck.


cornstateclimber


Aug 26, 2010, 12:10 AM
Post #20 of 20 (1629 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 324

Re: [bill413] Idiots boldly going where no idiot has gone before. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

the problem with all of it is when people are calling on these absurd rescues, its tying up rangers and helicopters that could be doing good elsewhere. rescuing some one who really needs it. i think they should be charged the 3500 it takes to get the helicopter out there. and the cost x100 of the water they got. its just rediculous! back in the day the donner party wouldve eaten each other to save the lives! now people use beacons to get hot chocolate! wtf!!!!! just goes to show you any schmuck can survive the backcountry! thanks to plbs!


Forums : Climbing Information : General

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook