|
calpolyclimber
Dec 24, 2002, 12:11 AM
Post #1 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 360
|
I understand that with sport draws you want to have a dedicated rope end becuase the hanger will scuff up the biner, and this can harm the rope. What about with trad? If I am assembling some "draws" from shoulder length slings, would it be a bad idea to use two of the same biner? I was thinking that the wire on the wired nuts could conceivably scuff the biner, but to what degree? Who knows... Thanks for any insight.
[ This Message was edited by: calpolyclimber on 2002-12-23 16:13 ]
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Dec 24, 2002, 12:37 AM
Post #2 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
i'd like to hear a response on this one too.
i climb trad almost exclusively with ovals on slings, but there may be a school of thought that would suggest using different biners.
it will be interesting to hear different opinions on this one. its always good to learn something new.
|
|
|
|
|
madturtle
Dec 24, 2002, 12:56 AM
Post #3 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2002
Posts: 165
|
It is tough to believe that small burrs caused by stopper wires or even bolts can compare to the abuse of running your rope over rock. Especially when you climb overhangs, wandering routes around corners or climb at high friction areas (ie J-tree).
That being said I do keep my wire gates and bent gates exclusively for the roped side of my draws/runners. That is what they are made for. Straight gates, D's and ovals go on the gear side when I climb. I've read you shouldn't put wire gates on the gear side but it didn't give a reason (JL's climbing anchors I think. If anyone has a reason for against this I'd like to hear it).
Vegastradguy, I think you'll find wire or bent gates are easier to clip than ovals. Also the wireds are lighter in general.
|
|
|
|
|
stevematthys
Dec 24, 2002, 6:39 AM
Post #4 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2000
Posts: 1248
|
i have wire gates on both ends of my draws, because when i am desperatly trying to make the clip before I factor 2 onto the belay station i dont want to be like, oh sh*t! this is the biner that is suppose to be on the rope end and not on the the pro!
[ This Message was edited by: stevematthys on 2002-12-23 22:41 ]
|
|
|
|
|
nailzz
Dec 24, 2002, 7:45 AM
Post #5 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2001
Posts: 244
|
Quote:
I've read you shouldn't put wire gates on the gear side but it didn't give a reason (JL's climbing anchors I think. If anyone has a reason for against this I'd like to hear it).
I don't have any 'hard science' or anything like that, but I did noticed that when wiregates first started getting used a lot, they were rope side only. Why? I dunno, cuz that's what everyone said. And if I don't know any better, I'm gonna do what the manufacturer and mass opinion says, at least where the potential penalty for being wrong is my life.
BD (whom I trust very much) now makes draws with Neutrino (wiregate) biners on both ends. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they are not the only company that makes them, but they are certainly one.
It could simply be that when that edition of John Long's book came out, it still was considered a no-no to use wires on gear-side. What's the copyright on it? I know the edition of Climbing Anchors I have doesn't even mention wiregates.
|
|
|
|
|
duskerhu
Dec 24, 2002, 8:36 AM
Post #6 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 1023
|
My view is that the wire on wired nuts or hexes more like "buffs" the surface of the biner as apposed to a bolt hanger which, if the biner gets caught the right way and weighted can actually put a small cut or chink in the metal.
Think of a "wire brush" and how it smoothes a metal surface instead of cuts into it...
duskerhu
|
|
|
|
|
calpolyclimber
Dec 24, 2002, 11:31 AM
Post #7 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 360
|
Good stuff guys, that helps to clear things up. I was thinking I would use Neutrino's on both sides, because they are so light, and seem to have a good rep. I get what you mean about the wire kindof "buffing" the biner, that makes sense. I'd still love to hear more opinions if they are out there. Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
tradguy
Dec 24, 2002, 12:47 PM
Post #8 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 526
|
Quote:And if I don't know any better, I'm gonna do what the manufacturer and mass opinion says, at least where the potential penalty for being wrong is my life.
I'm not aware of ANY manufacturer that in any way discourages using wiregates on the bolt/pro end. If you have an example, please quote the source.
Quote:It is tough to believe that small burrs caused by stopper wires or even bolts can compare to the abuse of running your rope over rock.
The issue you run into with the small burrs caused by bolts is that if you later have the rope running through that biner and take a big fall on it, as the rope is tensioned and stretches, it will slide across that sharp little flange of metal, and potentially damage the sheath of your rope. I doubt it could have the potential to cut clear through, but I personally would prefer not to rip holes in my rope and have to replace it.
I really don't think this is an issue with stranded cable, though, since it isn't fixed in place, and doesn't have the small radius edge like a bolt does. My recommendation is to keep track of your sport draws, and only use the bolt end on bolts or gear. Otherwise, if you have dedicated trad draws, feel free to swap biners at will.
As an aside, Neutrinos are great biners for the bolt/pro end of a draw, but personally I like a bigger biner for the rope end - something like a Wild Country Wild Wire or Assent wire. Yes, they are 6 grams more than the neutrino, but well worth every gram due to their easy clipping - particularly if you happen to be out in the ice and snow and are wearing gloves!
[ This Message was edited by: tradguy on 2002-12-24 04:50 ]
|
|
|
|
|
tradklime
Dec 27, 2002, 1:15 AM
Post #9 of 9
(1783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 2, 2002
Posts: 1235
|
I suggest keylocks for the end you clip to your harness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
