|
FastEddie
Apr 23, 2011, 4:32 AM
Post #1 of 51
(13445 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2010
Posts: 23
|
I'd like to get into trad more. I've lead a few low easy routes, but I've wondered what if I wasn't able to make it to a fixed anchor point? How do you bail on the route without leaving a nice cam?
(I did a search on this site, couldn't find anything. Regardless, let the trolling commence)
|
|
|
|
|
justanotherclimber
Apr 23, 2011, 4:36 AM
Post #2 of 51
(13441 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2005
Posts: 60
|
downclimb or leave a nut.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Apr 23, 2011, 5:02 AM
Post #3 of 51
(13423 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
FastEddie wrote: I'd like to get into trad more. I've lead a few low easy routes, but I've wondered what if I wasn't able to make it to a fixed anchor point? How do you bail on the route without leaving a nice cam? (I did a search on this site, couldn't find anything. Regardless, let the trolling commence)
If there is a tree or natural thread near by you can use a piece of webbing or cord and rap from that. It is VERY IMPORTANT that you live a biner or quicklink (some people carry one on their harness for this very occasion) if you are going to lower.
You can also bail on a nut or two with a biner, which is much cheaper than a cam but hardly free.
If possible, I recommend down leading. Basically, you down climb the route and remove your own protection as you go. You should never face any falls longer than those you would have taken had you fallen on your way up and you get to keep all your kit.
Down climbing requires time and skill though. I recommend practicing it when ever you get the chance. It has saved both my life/limb and gear on more than one occasion. If, as you say, you want to start doing more gear routes, downclimbing is going to be key to staying safe during your early days. Learn it.
|
|
|
|
|
jammer
Apr 23, 2011, 5:04 AM
Post #4 of 51
(13417 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 3472
|
Or you could be lowered and let your partner show you how it's done! 
|
|
|
|
|
HippieLettuce
Apr 23, 2011, 5:18 AM
Post #5 of 51
(13409 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 11
|
I think before you go any farther in your climbing career you should work on your analytical problem solving. There is no get out of jail free card in climbing, people often seem to forget that.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Apr 23, 2011, 5:25 AM
Post #6 of 51
(13380 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
HippieLettuce wrote: I think before you go any farther in your climbing career you should work on your analytical problem solving. There is no get out of jail free card in climbing, people often seem to forget that.
Ah yes. Certainly the best course of action (especially when death is on the line) is to make things up for yourself, instead of learning the lessons of those who have gone before.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Apr 23, 2011, 5:25 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
FastEddie
Apr 23, 2011, 5:28 AM
Post #7 of 51
(13375 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2010
Posts: 23
|
Thanks for the info. I've seen artifacts along routes - mostly old slings, some of which were knotted on one end and used as a stopper in a crack. I've always wondered if someone was going low budget pro, or just bailed at that point (and noone later cared to clean it off the route)
|
|
|
|
|
HippieLettuce
Apr 23, 2011, 5:35 AM
Post #9 of 51
(13369 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 11
|
Did someone honestly have to teach you that? If I can't go up any higher and there is no bolt, tree, block, etc. and I don't feel like jumping wtf else would I do. Obviously one should get some proper instruction on the basics for belaying, anchor building, etc. but come on, half the questions people ask are ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
|
cornstateclimber
Apr 23, 2011, 8:57 AM
Post #10 of 51
(13308 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 324
|
HippieLettuce wrote: Did someone honestly have to teach you that? If I can't go up any higher and there is no bolt, tree, block, etc. and I don't feel like jumping wtf else would I do. Obviously one should get some proper instruction on the basics for belaying, anchor building, etc. but come on, half the questions people ask are ridiculous.
+1
(This post was edited by cornstateclimber on Apr 23, 2011, 8:58 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
viciado
Apr 23, 2011, 11:38 AM
Post #11 of 51
(13282 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2003
Posts: 429
|
FastEddie, You are getting grief in this thread because the info is readily available on the site. Your experience gives you a good excuse (6 posts, and your admitted entry level of trad). Since the search engine on the site is pretty lousy, you may not be able to locate the resources: Try the Dead Horse under "Articles" that include tons of links to threads that have thrashed through many of these issues. Why are they there? Because a lot of people ask the SAME question over and over! Yes, there will be a lot of garbage in the threads, but the time you spend is worth it.
Glean the ideas/techniques and practice them on or near the ground. This will help you be able to decide what is the safest, most economic (time and money) way to bail. If you can, get someone with experience to show you.
|
|
|
|
|
tomcat
Apr 23, 2011, 12:23 PM
Post #12 of 51
(13275 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2006
Posts: 325
|
It's rare to leave a cam,though sometimes unavoidable.At times it's just faster to do that and walk around to rappel and recover it,in a place like the Gunks,where it's just a rap or two to the ground. Or climb an adjacent route that is easier.
Leaving a stopper works,with a biner attached.You can lower,downclimb or rappel from that,however if you are new to placing gear,some sort of back-up is in order.Downclimbing is a critical skill,and chances are good you can downclimb what you climbed up without fully weighting the top piece.Moreso if your partner just gives you a bit of help.
Often enough it's a combination of techniques,like downclimbing X distance to get set up with a bomber stopper lower down. The key is not to put all your eggs in a basket with a poor piece, past a certain point if it blows you are toast. Rapping you are toast if it blows at any time,so I prefer lowering.
I climb on doubles,so I place a stopper and clip one rope to it.Then typically lower off while the belayer takes in the other rope as a form of protection should the stopper fail.Which rope gets clipped to the high piece is usually a function of how the ropes are clipped lower.The one doing the least below gets clipped high.
The trouble occurs when you have led past the halfway point on your rope length.At that point it may be better to french free (climb while pulling on gear,and hang when you need to) to get to the anchor.With doubles you just need to find a solid anchor point and rap.
Remember you can earn enough cash to replace a cam by lunchtime on Monday,as long as you make it to work Monday.
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Apr 23, 2011, 1:16 PM
Post #13 of 51
(13264 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
FastEddie wrote: I'd like to get into trad more. I've lead a few low easy routes, but I've wondered what if I wasn't able to make it to a fixed anchor point? How do you bail on the route without leaving a nice cam? (I did a search on this site, couldn't find anything. Regardless, let the trolling commence)
Eddie,
Here is some things that I have done when I couldn't do a move/climb.
1) Lowered and let my partner give it a shot.
2)Lowered and walked around to the top, set up a rappel and cleaned gear on rappel (Or have done an easier route next to it).
3) Left a solid piece and lowered off cleaning the rest of the gear. (I wasn't too far above the ground and I had already fallen 7 times on the piece. I checked it before I lowered. If I was much higher, I would have probably left at least a second piece. It was only a nut, so I wasn't too worried about losing that piece).
4) Aided past the harder section (if you do not know how to or even what aid climbing is, then learn. This VERY useful skill can mean the difference between "No big deal" and a "Major Epic.")
5) Down climbed, cleaning gear as I go down.
Using all the skills in my repertoire, I have only left gear behind once in 9 years of climbing. A big part of that is being crafty about getting up by any means possible, but also not being on anything big if the weather is questionable.
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
rangerrob
Apr 23, 2011, 2:09 PM
Post #14 of 51
(13239 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2003
Posts: 641
|
Eddie, most of this advice is good. Because you are new, I would strongly caution you against bailing off a single piece of gear, regardless if it's a cam or a nut. You do not yet have the experience to know exactly how good that piece is, and failure of your top piece as you lower off and remove all lower pieces is a sketchy proposition.
Downclimbing is always the first choice. If that's not possible, then lower off and let your buddy try. As a last resort, build an anchor at your top point, lower and clean the route, and either chalk up your gear to the learning curve, or walk around and rap down to retrieve.
Your life is worth more than a single nut. I would leave multiple cams if that was my only recourse. I can always save money to buy more. You can't save money to buy another life.
RR
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Apr 23, 2011, 3:15 PM
Post #15 of 51
(13208 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
rangerrob wrote: Eddie, most of this advice is good. Because you are new, I would strongly caution you against bailing off a single piece of gear, regardless if it's a cam or a nut. You do not yet have the experience to know exactly how good that piece is, and failure of your top piece as you lower off and remove all lower pieces is a sketchy proposition. Downclimbing is always the first choice. If that's not possible, then lower off and let your buddy try. As a last resort, build an anchor at your top point, lower and clean the route, and either chalk up your gear to the learning curve, or walk around and rap down to retrieve. Your life is worth more than a single nut. I would leave multiple cams if that was my only recourse. I can always save money to buy more. You can't save money to buy another life. RR
Thankfully I've never found myself in the situation where I had to lower off just one piece. I think I would poop.
|
|
|
|
|
tomcat
Apr 23, 2011, 4:00 PM
Post #16 of 51
(13179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2006
Posts: 325
|
If you are just starting to trad lead, I'd also try to stay away from routes you think have a good chance of needing to retreat from.Leading trad is really best learned by getting some mileage on some goof proof first.At least that's my opinion.
Kudos for thinking ahead.
|
|
|
|
|
cfnubbler
Apr 23, 2011, 5:27 PM
Post #17 of 51
(13142 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 628
|
HippieLettuce wrote: Di come on, half the questions people ask are ridiculous.
...and so are half the answers offered.
|
|
|
|
|
climboard
Apr 23, 2011, 5:29 PM
Post #18 of 51
(13141 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 503
|
tomcat wrote: If you are just starting to trad lead, I'd also try to stay away from routes you think have a good chance of needing to retreat from.Leading trad is really best learned by getting some mileage on some goof proof first.At least that's my opinion. Kudos for thinking ahead.
+1
At this point in your trad climbing career you shouldn't be on anything near hard enough to shut you down.
(This post was edited by climboard on Apr 23, 2011, 5:32 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Apr 23, 2011, 5:37 PM
Post #19 of 51
(13136 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
climboard wrote: tomcat wrote: If you are just starting to trad lead, I'd also try to stay away from routes you think have a good chance of needing to retreat from.Leading trad is really best learned by getting some mileage on some goof proof first.At least that's my opinion. Kudos for thinking ahead. +1 At this point in your trad climbing career you shouldn't be on anything near hard enough to shut you down.
|
|
|
|
|
FastEddie
Apr 23, 2011, 6:21 PM
Post #20 of 51
(13114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2010
Posts: 23
|
I might be a newbie to trad, but I'm not a newbie to forums on the 'net. Any grief I'm getting on this thread is expected, I know this question has been asked and answered before - I just couldn't find it.
I've not posted much here because I'm more of a lurker - just like to read (from the view/post count on most threads I'm not alone).
This was a sort of "try out" question for this forum. I've had this question in the back of my mind for six months or so, but never heard the answer in passing or remembered to ask experienced climbers.
Cool, well - I'm now off to start my own trad meetup group - wish me luck! /s
|
|
|
|
|
byran
Apr 23, 2011, 9:29 PM
Post #21 of 51
(13066 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 6, 2006
Posts: 266
|
For those trad routes that are "too big to fail", a bailout is really the only option.
|
|
|
|
|
billl7
Apr 24, 2011, 12:08 AM
Post #22 of 51
(13009 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890
|
FastEddie wrote: Cool, well - I'm now off to start my own trad meetup group - wish me luck! /s
Damnit - have you been drinking beer again with
no_email_entered
|
|
|
|
|
FastEddie
Apr 24, 2011, 6:38 AM
Post #23 of 51
(12886 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2010
Posts: 23
|
Was wondering if anyone would get the reference
|
|
|
|
|
Jmus
Apr 24, 2011, 12:33 PM
Post #24 of 51
(12836 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2011
Posts: 17
|
sometimes you gotta just leave something... its either that or risk a big fall.. i knew someone who got off route and didnt wanna lose a piece of gear so he used a piton that he thought was good and it snapped and he took a pretty good fall. itll be hard at the time but after when your alive itll be worth the 10 bucks for a new nut or what ever yu had to leave
plus it makes a great suprise present for the next climber haha
|
|
|
|
|
dindolino32
Apr 24, 2011, 4:22 PM
Post #25 of 51
(12797 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2008
Posts: 155
|
definitely learn to AID past that particular part if possible. I have yet to bail on a route because of difficulty. The only time we bailed was due to a late start. I pick my multipitch routes carefully, and if it is single pitch then just get lowered and find another way to the top, or better yet practice aiding on that pitch as it will prepare you for one of those epic moments everyone always talks about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have also downclimbed on numerous occasions. 
1
