Forums: Community: The Soap Box:
Forged! The soap box book club.
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Soap Box

Premier Sponsor:

 


Toast_in_the_Machine


May 14, 2011, 4:57 AM
Post #1 of 11 (1143 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 5184

Forged! The soap box book club.
Report this Post
Can't Post

So here is the CNN review of "Forged":

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/...-bible-scholar-says/

cnn.com wrote:
“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.


Partner rrrADAM


May 14, 2011, 9:41 AM
Post #2 of 11 (1131 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
So here is the CNN review of "Forged":

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/...-bible-scholar-says/

cnn.com wrote:
“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.


Yawn... Old news. And most Christians won't believe any of this anyway. They are content with their Sunday School understanding of religious history.


styndall


May 15, 2011, 3:29 PM
Post #3 of 11 (1087 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

These stylistic arguments are really, really weak - a former professor of mine occasionally works to rebut forensic linguists in court cases, and this guy doesn't even have a rigorous forensic linguistic model to build a stylometry case.

Further, the fact that someone refers to someone else as an agrammatos doesn't necessarily mean they can neither read nor write, just as calling someone unlettered in English indicates merely that someone isn't counted well-read, not that he's actually incapable of reading or writing.

It's possible, and even probable, that some of the gospels are copies of the others, or that all are modified versions of some otherwise lost original text, but I simply don't believe that this guy's linguistic claims stand up to serious scrutiny.


Partner rrrADAM


May 15, 2011, 5:27 PM
Post #4 of 11 (1078 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [styndall] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

styndall wrote:
It's possible, and even probable, that some of the gospels are copies of the others, or that all are modified versions of some otherwise lost original text, but I simply don't believe that this guy's linguistic claims stand up to serious scrutiny.

I'm sure you are well aware of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synoptic_Gospels
http://en.wikipedia.org/...n_(synoptic_problem)

Pretty much just the details of what you wrote above, with the latter suggested as an alternative to the Q Doc.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on May 15, 2011, 5:31 PM)


spikeddem


May 15, 2011, 7:59 PM
Post #5 of 11 (1060 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319

Re: [styndall] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

styndall wrote:
These stylistic arguments are really, really weak - a former professor of mine occasionally works to rebut forensic linguists in court cases, and this guy doesn't even have a rigorous forensic linguistic model to build a stylometry case.

Further, the fact that someone refers to someone else as an agrammatos doesn't necessarily mean they can neither read nor write, just as calling someone unlettered in English indicates merely that someone isn't counted well-read, not that he's actually incapable of reading or writing.

You probably win when you play scrabble/bananagrams, eh?


Toast_in_the_Machine


May 15, 2011, 8:46 PM
Post #6 of 11 (1055 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 5184

Re: [spikeddem] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

spikeddem wrote:
styndall wrote:
These stylistic arguments are really, really weak - a former professor of mine occasionally works to rebut forensic linguists in court cases, and this guy doesn't even have a rigorous forensic linguistic model to build a stylometry case.

Further, the fact that someone refers to someone else as an agrammatos doesn't necessarily mean they can neither read nor write, just as calling someone unlettered in English indicates merely that someone isn't counted well-read, not that he's actually incapable of reading or writing.

You probably win when you play scrabble/bananagrams, eh?

I kick butt at bananagrams, but as you can see from my posts, my vocab sux. Ban/scrab are more mathematical than linguistic. If I recall correctly, english isn't the primary language of many high level scrabble players.


squierbypetzl
Moderator

May 15, 2011, 10:24 PM
Post #7 of 11 (1050 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 6, 2005
Posts: 3431

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

About halfway through Our man in Damascus, the story of Eli Cohen, the "famous" jewish spy. It's ok.

Non soapbox literature: Finished reading On the Beach on Monday of last week. If you ever feel your outlook on life is too optimistic, I highly recommend it (not as bad as The Road, but still...)


(This post was edited by squierbypetzl on May 15, 2011, 10:25 PM)


blondgecko
Moderator

May 15, 2011, 10:39 PM
Post #8 of 11 (1046 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666

Re: [squierbypetzl] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

squierbypetzl wrote:
About halfway through Our man in Damascus, the story of Eli Cohen, the "famous" jewish spy. It's ok.

Non soapbox literature: Finished reading On the Beach on Monday of last week. If you ever feel your outlook on life is too optimistic, I highly recommend it (not as bad as The Road, but still...)


Yeah - anything by Steven Baxter is good for that too. In Titan he (spoiler alert)



kills off the entire population of Earth, other than the handful on a manned mission to the eponymous moon. By that stage, my response was "meh - good riddance." The book only gets more depressing from there.


styndall


May 16, 2011, 6:08 AM
Post #9 of 11 (1015 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741

Re: [blondgecko] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Atwood's Oryx and Crake is my favorite book in the 'all humanity dies' genre.


rmsusa


May 16, 2011, 2:00 PM
Post #10 of 11 (987 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1017

Re: [squierbypetzl] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

In reply to:
Finished reading On the Beach on Monday of last week.

Classic cold war, nuclear scare lit. I read it as an adolescent when it seemed like a real possibility. I "think" we know better now.


sungam


May 17, 2011, 8:43 AM
Post #11 of 11 (947 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26477

Re: [styndall] Forged! The soap box book club. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

styndall wrote:
Atwood's Oryx and Crake is my favorite book in the 'all humanity dies' genre.
My girly friend just read that book. She gave me the rundown on what was shaking. Weird, but rad, sounding for sure.


Forums : Community : The Soap Box

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook