Seriously, is this all trad is: not sport? By this logic I put up a climb with all hand-drilled bolts from stances, drill the anchor on rappel, maybe put in a cam for posterity, .... and wallah! A new trad climb to go tell the world how brave and awesome I am.
Seriously, is this all trad is: not sport? By this logic I put up a climb with all hand-drilled bolts from stances, drill the anchor on rappel, maybe put in a cam for posterity, .... and wallah! A new trad climb to go tell the world how brave and awesome I am.
You've just described hundreds of routes in Yosemite valley, notably on Glacier Point Apron but some on Middle Cathedral as well, and most of the old school routes in Tuolumne Meadows. Many routes at Courtright Reservoir qualify as well. The term "trad climbing" didn't exist until Alan Watts coined the term "sport climbing" to describe routes safely protected by pre-placed gear on rappel. Trad has nothing to do with the kind of gear. Your continued claiming otherwise doesn't make it true.
And since you totally missed the point, *you* are what is similar to a box of hammers.
And Jardin traverse is chipped, so chipping is trad too! Sweet, my new school trad project just got a whole lot easier.
Chipping is an ethical issue that encompasses both trad and sport and as such is irrelevant to whatever points you are trying to make. Mostly though it just seems that you like to argue on the net. There are a few others that are the same. I'm beginning to wonder if they're all merely different personas of the same person. Or maybe you're just argumentative chatbot software.
You can say my post on the other thread was 'perpendicular' to the conversation, but it wasn't. It is a valid question and 7 others agree with me, according to the poll.
But here, my statement IS the question, so YOU are orthoganal.
Seriously, is this all trad is: not sport? By this logic I put up a climb with all hand-drilled bolts from stances, drill the anchor on rappel, maybe put in a cam for posterity, .... and wallah! A new trad climb to go tell the world how brave and awesome I am.
Maybe you didn't read this before, so I'll copy and paste it for you here:
In reply to:
Trad route ---------------- A route in which the FA party (or FFA if it was already an aid line) climbed it from bottom to top, placing any new fixed gear (which may include bolts) en-route. It may follow an existing aid line, which may already have fixed gear on it. The most important issue is to take the route as you find it, to find your way using what the rock allows, placing fixed gear as a last resort. The FA party does their best to rise to the challenge of what the rock allows. Very little consideration is placed on making the route more "safe" for those who come later. It is expected that any later ascent parties will have the opportunity to measure themselves against the same yardstick (the rock and what it allows as you climb from the bottom to the top) as the FA party did. The FFA goes to the first party who leads every pitch clean (no hanging on gear save at belays).
Look, either actually trad climb, which is rad, because there is no fixed protection, or admit that you are making your climbing into a safty oriented sport better suited for anorexic douche nozzels, which is another option.
Look, either actually trad climb, which is rad, because there is no fixed protection, or admit that you are making your climbing into a safty oriented sport better suited for anorexic douche nozzels, which is another option.
I think this thread is hilarious fun! I think we can chalk this one up to an extremely inexperienced climber. If he wants to argue the point that a route isn't trad anymore because it has bolts then thats fine. I think he might change his tune with a little more experience climbing long routes, especially if he ever climbs a desert tower. Ya know its kind of like when you go out for the day and you run into the yuppies with all shiny brand new gear that have no clue what there doing.... just smile, tell them to have a nice day, and then keep doing your own thing.
On the contrary, mr. Poedoe, I am a very experienced climber, but I don't like fixed anchors and the slippery slope to convenience climbing they imply. In the eighties, bolts and fixed anchors where a point of discussion, now they are taken as standard practice on a 'trad' climb.
In the trad climber mind, fixed anchors are trad, but a totally bolted climb is a sport climb. I doubt your average land manager, hiker, tourist, etc really sees the difference between 2 chains and 2 chains and 10 bolts. .... but hey, whatever gives you that traddy feeling
Can't you see that if you take away the designation of "tradster" and instead insert "lame 5.10 super punter" the climb and climber stops being awesome and starts being douchy. This is why any punter inserting his own cam must be recognized as true trad climber who is being BA, even if his climb is about as trad as Mt. Everest. Fear not, super-chuffer is probably a punter too, he is just tired of punters smelling their own farts and calling them perfume.
Sweet -if you don't like fixed anchors, don't ever clip into them again, anywhere. Build your own every time. Good luck to you in your climbing endeavors.
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