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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 6:41 PM
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Yesterday while climbing at the Gunks I saw a belayer / instructor using some technique with the GriGri that I never saw before and wish there was a U-Tube video of what he was doing....
He was belaying a top rope student climbing - and from the standing position he quickly squatted-down fast! My buddy said it's a way they 'take up slack rope quickly' - tho I never got to observe what he was doing more and/or speak to him about how to do this, the why, etc.
Does anyone know anything about this?
I can't see how squatting-down like that could 'take in' the rope....
????
(This post was edited by ACLSRN on Aug 4, 2011, 6:42 PM)
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jt512
Aug 4, 2011, 6:52 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: Yesterday while climbing at the Gunks I saw a belayer / instructor using some technique with the GriGri that I never saw before and wish there was a U-Tube video of what he was doing.... He was belaying a top rope student climbing - and from the standing position he quickly squatted-down fast! My buddy said it's a way they 'take up slack rope quickly' - tho I never got to observe what he was doing more and/or speak to him about how to do this, the why, etc. Does anyone know anything about this? I can't see how squatting-down like that could 'take in' the rope.... ????
Quoted for posterity.
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Kartessa
Aug 4, 2011, 7:11 PM
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Scandalous!
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JAB
Aug 4, 2011, 7:16 PM
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That dirty bastard!
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spikeddem
Aug 4, 2011, 7:36 PM
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OMG!
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marc801
Aug 4, 2011, 7:41 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: I can't see how squatting-down like that could 'take in' the rope....
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DougMartin
Aug 4, 2011, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: I can't see how squatting-down like that could 'take in' the rope....
That's what she said!
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spikeddem
Aug 4, 2011, 7:57 PM
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DougMartin wrote: In reply to: I can't see how squatting-down like that could 'take in' the rope.... That's what she said!
that doesn't even make sense.
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sticky_fingers
Aug 4, 2011, 8:10 PM
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Sunshine, are you still confused?
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cmiller12
Aug 4, 2011, 8:43 PM
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Oh dear, you might have been asking for that a bit. But here's an actual answer, at least for the reasons I sit into my harness while on belay:
Ropes have a lot of stretch to them, so even if you are keeping a tight belay, if your climber falls/rests, when they weight the rope, it will stretch a good deal, meaning they end up lower down. If you sit into the belay, you can take the stretch out so they don't lose height.
Also, on a fall when there's lots of slack out, the belayer typically only has time to take in one arm's length of rope before it will catch. If he/she sits into the harness, this again takes up a bit more slack before the rope catches. The belay loop/ATC is closer to the ground, therefore increasing the distance between belayer and climber and reducing slack in the rope, make sense?
You can also sit into your harness and lean back to give a helpful belay (counterweight the rope to make it a little easier for the climber if he/she is struggling), but that doesn't sound like what you were describing.
And you can do the same thing using an ATC.
Hope this is helpful!
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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 9:05 PM
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Hi! LOL!
Thanks I guess I was asking for it - and have to 'take it' in good fun!
Fact WAS THO - I frikken saw it! And I was like "WTF?"
Yeah that makes sense...I was TRYING to figure out to - "There is NO WAY he could have gotten that rope to SLIP thru the GriGri taking the slack OUT when he did that!" - but I see now that he wasn't TRYING to get the rope to go THRU the GriGri! He was just trying to take up slack in the rope by dropping lower quickly!
I was like "Huh?" The GriGri would LOCK UP on the rope as soon as he dropped down! But as you said - he wasn't trying to get rope to slip THRU the device - he was only trying to take out the slack that was left IN the rope being out!
LOL! Had it not looked SO strange - I prob wouldn't have thought anything OF IT - and then wondered - "OK! Is what this guy just DID actually SAFE?"
Thanks for the info!
...OR - maybe he was getting the urge to POOP quick! LOL!
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socalclimber
Aug 4, 2011, 9:10 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: Hi! LOL! Thanks I guess I was asking for it - and have to 'take it' in good fun! Fact WAS THO - I frikken saw it! And I was like "WTF?" Yeah that makes sense...I was TRYING to figure out to - "There is NO WAY he could have gotten that rope to SLIP thru the GriGri taking the slack OUT when he did that!" - but I see now that he wasn't TRYING to get the rope to go THRU the GriGri! He was just trying to take up slack in the rope by dropping lower quickly! I was like "Huh?" The GriGri would LOCK UP on the rope as soon as he dropped down! But as you said - he wasn't trying to get rope to slip THRU the device - he was only trying to take out the slack that was left IN the rope being out! LOL! Had it not looked SO strange - I prob wouldn't have thought anything OF IT - and then wondered - "OK! Is what this guy just DID actually SAFE?" Thanks for the info! ...OR - maybe he was getting the urge to POOP quick! LOL!
Glad you understand what he was doing.
Honestly, the mods really need to move this to the beginners forum.
IT DOES NOT BELONG HERE!
Also, this has nothing to do with the GriGri.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Aug 4, 2011, 9:11 PM)
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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 9:12 PM
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Well,
I was going to post it there - but I have climbed for years - before having been away from the sport for awhile and now returning - so I'm not really a beginner - and - I've never seen anyone do that in the 12 yrs or so that I once climbed! Hell - Don Mellor never taught me THAT move!
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redlude97
Aug 4, 2011, 9:21 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: Well, I was going to post it there - but I have climbed for years - before having been away from the sport for awhile and now returning - so I'm not really a beginner - and - I've never seen anyone do that in the 12 yrs or so that I once climbed! Hell - Don Mellor never taught me THAT move!
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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 9:23 PM
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Well,
as I said - I've never seen it thus far and neither have a lot of the people that I know that climb all the time - and - I've never seen this in the multitude of any of my climbing books, etc.
(This post was edited by ACLSRN on Aug 4, 2011, 9:23 PM)
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socalclimber
Aug 4, 2011, 9:28 PM
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redlude97 wrote: ACLSRN wrote: Well, I was going to post it there - but I have climbed for years - before having been away from the sport for awhile and now returning - so I'm not really a beginner - and - I've never seen anyone do that in the 12 yrs or so that I once climbed! Hell - Don Mellor never taught me THAT move! Time is not what determines noob status, if you don't know how to use this very basic technique while belaying, you are a noob.
This is a very true statement. Unfortunately, climbers these days think because they climb several weekends a month for 10 years they are veteran climbers. This is usually not the case. And no, I am not saying that you have to climb 365 days a year. You just are not going to get enough mileage under your belt based on the current popular trend as to what an "experienced" climber really is.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a very basic principle of belaying. Not knowing this technique puts you at the top of the noob list.
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socalclimber
Aug 4, 2011, 9:38 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: Well, as I said - I've never seen it thus far and neither have a lot of the people that I know that climb all the time - and - I've never seen this in the multitude of any of my climbing books, etc.
You really need to find better climbers to hang out with.
Here in lies the problem. Noobs mentoring noobs. Bad situation.
Every heard of the running belay?
The people you speak of clearly don't know what they are doing either.
This is a basic precept of belaying.
Again, it has nothing to do with the grigri. It's a technique.
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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 9:50 PM
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Yup! I've used a running belay before when climbing....as well as sitting hanging belays and even aid climbing, jugging, etc.
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socalclimber
Aug 4, 2011, 9:56 PM
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Look, I'm really not trying to be mean here. Let me explain my position.
First off, your question is inherently flawed. This has nothing to do with a grigri. It's a basic technique used in belaying that dates back decades when climbers were largely using the hip belay. There are various techniques for taking up slack in a system.
It's just another technique.
Is it the only way to do things? NO. It's a technique. But, there is nothing obscure about it. Sometimes I walk backwards when top rope belaying to take up slake for a number of reasons. In most cases it's so I can see what the climber is doing. It's part of my job as a belayer to know what my partner is up to. There are times when I will actually walk forward fully locked off during a lower to make sure I'm close enough to the rock so I don't get pulled in out of control if my partner is heavy than I am. There are all sorts of reason for doing this. Experience is the only thing that will dictate when it's a good idea and when it's not.
Finally, I could care less what is in the "books". They are no the end all De facto tomes to climbing. At best, they only cover some of the basics.
If the people you climb with are pawning themselves off as experts and are unaware of this technique, then they really are not as competent as you believe them to be.
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socalclimber
Aug 4, 2011, 10:28 PM
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By the way. This technique is also extremely useful for getting the stretch out of a dynamic rope when a climber is top roping and just off the ground or a ledge.
It will keep the climber from "stretching" into the ground or ledge.
Again, an age old practice completely independent of the belay device in use.
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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 10:47 PM
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i! Thanks for the info! It just wasn't something that I ever witnessed when I climbed back in the 80's for years and never even saw Mellor use it or suggest it, etc.
I do however do as you say - I like to step back when belaying - altho my anchor anchor will dictate hw much movement I have to do so - so as to see what the climber that I am belaying is doing, watch them closer, and be more attentive to slack occurring in the rope or system, be more ready for any falls that may happen, etc.
Just never happened to see this particular technique done is all I am saying....yeah when I go climbing I like to watch and observe what others are doing, learn, grow, etc - but I have also seen a lot of things in my day - like climbers n the Gunks 'tying in' with a locking biner instead of a Fig 8 b/c they wanted to save time in swapping leads while top roping, etc and not waste time ting and untying Fig 8's.
As I said - I have seen a lot of things - sometimes it's hard to sort out what IS safe and acceptable practice in this sport - and what is 'self invented' that is being employed and unsafe practices!
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johnwesely
Aug 4, 2011, 10:51 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: Well, I was going to post it there - but I have climbed for years - before having been away from the sport for awhile and now returning - so I'm not really a beginner - and - I've never seen anyone do that in the 12 yrs or so that I once climbed! Hell - Don Mellor never taught me THAT move!
Who is Don Mellor.
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ACLSRN
Aug 4, 2011, 10:53 PM
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johnwesely wrote: ACLSRN wrote: Well, I was going to post it there - but I have climbed for years - before having been away from the sport for awhile and now returning - so I'm not really a beginner - and - I've never seen anyone do that in the 12 yrs or so that I once climbed! Hell - Don Mellor never taught me THAT move!Who is Don Mellor.
he wrote the Adirondack climbing guidebook and was a climbing instructor for many years up there - put up a lot of first ascents in the ADK's over the years!
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moose_droppings
Aug 5, 2011, 12:19 AM
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ACLSRN wrote: Yup! I've used a running belay before when climbing....as well as sitting hanging belays and even aid climbing, jugging, etc.
There are 2 different meanings always tossed out for "running belay".
Running down the hill or away from the wall is the one most people associate with running belay.
A running belay is when a lead climber places a piece of pro and clips into it, then climbs on. Each piece of protection as one climbs runs out further from the person belaying.
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Aug 5, 2011, 12:22 AM)
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