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elvislegs
Mar 13, 2003, 8:19 PM
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In reply to: drilling eh? dont' make this into a bolt thread... let's see you try and place pro on pockety limestone... it's impossible.
Yes. Different issue all together.
I meant drilling as in "I can't do this problem so I'm drilling a mono so I have something to stick my weak ass fingers into."
...did I just say "ass fingers"? :oops:
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broker
Mar 13, 2003, 8:30 PM
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I just want to say I'm sorry for getting everyone so worked up. As a newbie to what was going on.... I thought that I would turn to the opinions of my peers. Thank you for the input.
I do what is expected of me& let nothing get in my way-- Neither the inanimate, nor the irrational, nor the hopelessly lost- Marcus Aurelius
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jumaringjeff
Mar 13, 2003, 8:37 PM
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chipping is fvcking bullshite. period.
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dingus
Mar 13, 2003, 8:46 PM
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In reply to: I just want to say I'm sorry for getting everyone so worked up. As a newbie to what was going on.... I thought that I would turn to the opinions of my peers. Thank you for the input.
And now for a more rounded perspective Broker:
I too think it short sighted (based upon the extremenly thin information provided) that this boulder was chipped. I personally think chipping is a negative.
But these people who attempt to breathe life into stone, giving it magical properties and religious significance, are a bit too over the top for me. They would have you believe the rock is harmed through chipping. What a laugh. It's a stone, remember? We crush them up to make roads. We blast them with holes for highways. We quarry them for floor tiles. Michangelo carved the hell out of em with hammer and chisel! Rocks. Not gods. Not animals. Not religious tokens.
Rocks.
Chipping has been a long, dark, rarely-spoken-about-honestly, component of rock climbing. Chippers have been among us, are among us and always will be. The Anasazi were some awesome chippers, eh? We marvel at THEIR work!
If you look at routes with a critical eye you may come to appreciate just how many chipped routes there are, at many areas the bulk of the moderate routes are chipped, purposely or not.
It comes down to local ethics, preservation of a finite resources, and respect for our fellow climbers. Chipping is a bad idea in most areas, for a variety of reasons. But there is no need to become a zealot about it.
And there is never any harm in asking...
DMT
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elvislegs
Mar 13, 2003, 8:51 PM
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Madriver: In reply to: ....but it's O.K for YOU to climb on it? Climbing on manufactured rock is the point.
Part of the area he is referring to is being blasted even today for rich people's yard ornaments. While I feel this is incredibly stupid, I think it is very cool that climbers have taken advantage of this nasty practice to climb the rock that's left.
We have very little control over idiot developers who blast sandstone boulders, we do have control over our own actions. Climbing a rock that someone else has damaged is different than damaging it yourself. I climbed that blasted sandstone this morning, but I left the screwdriver at home. See the difference?
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madriver
Mar 13, 2003, 9:04 PM
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elvis wrote.....
In reply to: I climbed that blasted sandstone this morning, but I left the screwdriver at home. See the difference?
elvis.......I really don't have an issue with your point or chipping for that matter. I do have an issue with someone being arrogant and blasting someones obvious inocent question! Astones' justification that because someone (other than a climber) "the quarry" has defiled the rock that it is O.K for HIM to climb is B.S!! I don't care about the quarry or what may be a cool place to climb. Climbing on rock that holds were created by man, wheather it was a boulder or quarry, whats the difference? Also, saying that chipping rock at a qurry is not O.K......??? Please......what happens next week when the whole place is cut six feet further back into the hill?
I guess I don't see where a chipped boulder or a quarry is any different?
Peace
Bob
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astone
Mar 13, 2003, 9:05 PM
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Right On elvislegs,
After climbing there for the last 3 years I have come to the same conclusion. Furthermore, I can't say I have gotten any enjoyment from the selection of drillfests that have been left there over the years by climbers who figured the route would probably get blown up soon anyway.
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elvislegs
Mar 13, 2003, 9:22 PM
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Let me ask you this Madriver, have you ever been on a route that was chipped? Most likely. But you didn't chip it, nor should you be blamed for it.
The difference to me is that if it were up to me, I wouldn't want the rock chipped at all. The fact that faceless corporate, so and so blasts it all the time, doesn't change my take on that. Situational ethics are not my thing. So in order to be true to my beliefs and myself I won't touch the rock with a tool, no matter how much it gets it from other sources.
I also will not allow those that do chip it or blast it to ruin my climbing in the valley by doing so. Leaving because someone marrs the rock gives them what they want. It's definately a fine line, but my conscience is clear to climb on the rock while protesting it's altering.
As to the personal attack and arrogance, your point is valid but I believe astone apologized for his remarks.
astone: yeah, my favorite is the chipped FOOT holds on some of the traverses up there. Not to mention the rednecks in 4X4's augering out ruts everywhere and breaking beer bottles everywhere. BCA and other valley environmentalists need to push a little harder on these people, and current restrictions need to be enforced better. Easier said than done I suppose.
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madriver
Mar 13, 2003, 9:28 PM
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elvis wrote..........
In reply to: The difference to me is that if it were up to me, I wouldn't want the rock chipped at all.
that my friend we agree on. I would never chip or manufacture holds in any rock that I wanted to climb. I wouldn't do it at a quarry, but I would not have the same issue with that as I would with chipping at a "natural" theater of climbing.
Nuff said....you articulate your point much better than I.
Have a good one....
Bob
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elvislegs
Mar 13, 2003, 9:31 PM
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Right on. Thanks for the thoughtful discussion, flame free. This is a good thread, and you are a gentleman and a scholar. :D Take it easy man.
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crick
Mar 25, 2003, 8:20 PM
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It's nice to see folks so passionate against the chipping of rocks. I can think of at least 10 areas i have been to, that have had nearly ALL of the routes there chipped. And i can recall 3 routes in particular that have had routes chipped between holidays to these locations. chipping/gluing/comfortizing should be as frowned upon out there, as much as in here. Yes, Limestone is sharp. buck up.
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jumaringjeff
Mar 25, 2003, 9:00 PM
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...is bullshitt.
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rocknut1
Mar 26, 2003, 3:43 PM
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I agree with whats been said, You may not be able to climb a particular route or problem when you start but as you get better through training or climbing some where else you will be able to climb that rock as it is. Next time you see someone altering rock let them know thats what home or gym walls are for. Leave the rock for all no matter where its located.
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bmoscon
Mar 26, 2003, 4:45 PM
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messin up rocks is not cool :evil:
thos rock formations probably took millions of years to form and once some fools destroy them, they aint comin back. leave nature alone and try and preserve what we still have :D
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misha
Mar 27, 2003, 2:26 AM
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Broker, on behalf of all reputable members of the climbing community, I beg you not to suppor this desecration of precious rock in any way. Any experienced climber with any morals will tell you that hold manufacturing in any way is totally innapropriate.
At first i was tempted to get yell at you like several other people have but i realized that this wouldn't solve anything. I can't really blame it on you becuase you have had little experience with such matters. Pleas however, try not to take it personally when people get uptight about hold chipping. It is a very sensetive issue in the climbing community and it was only natural that someone would get mad.
I hope that you'll see my point of view and i wish you good luck for the rest of your climbing career, but please, don't support hold manufacturing any anyways. Many great problems have been destroyed due to this practice. THe detrimental effects of chipping have ruined entire climbing areas.
Thanks for being open minded.
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misha
Mar 27, 2003, 2:31 AM
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Broker, just curious but I'm wondering if you have seen our point of view by now.
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freudian
Mar 27, 2003, 2:39 AM
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If it is blasted rock and no features, plus on your own property... hey... why not? Blasted rock sux (Generally) anyways...
but if its nice granite or somthing ... and not blasted... leave it alone. Chances are its NOT featureless... your just not good enough to climb it.
My 10c cause my 2c is free.
Andrew
In reply to: Some guys carved some killer boulder routes in the rock over by my house. I was telling a couple of people about it and that got all upset saying its a terrible thing to do. What's your opinoin? |
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misha
Mar 27, 2003, 2:40 AM
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No rock should be carved. I don't care if the rock is as hard as butter, or if it is 45 degree overhanging glass. If it is blank then leave it be. Not all rocks were meant to be climbed.
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broker
Mar 30, 2003, 12:11 AM
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thanks guys, i appreciate the input. i don't plan on chipping anything. fortunatly for me i'm a descent climber that enjoys working problems that i cant do untill i can. i'll just stick to the rock in backyard which only gets modified after a good rain.( it's a chaulk rock creek thats about 25feet deep) after a good rain alot of big rocks get busted off, so there is always something new to climb.
as far as you guys go....ya'll are ok. i've noticed that the entire climbing community is very willing to help us newbies. everyone has made this sport the funnest thing ive ever done. THANX
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ronamick
Mar 31, 2003, 11:24 AM
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DON'T DO IT. Somebody else might be able to climb it without brutalizing the rock, so what right do you have to put big bozo holds in and ruin it for everybody else? Once the rock is screwed up, that's it. It doesn't heal or grow back. It is a finite and non-renewable resource, so don't wreck it!
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apollodorus
Mar 31, 2003, 12:16 PM
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WAY homo.
Don't do it.
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michaelmay513
Mar 31, 2003, 2:14 PM
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Take a place like Leslie Gultch in Idaho/Oregon. Tony Yaniro chipped all of his routes on the Asylum wall. The wall is completly smooth and featureless. Tony's style was to make moves that the climber has to figure out, the moves are very detailed and intricate. Now I challenge all you pissed off about chipping people to go to Leslie Gultch, and try to climb the walls w/o the use of the pockets. As long as the chipping is in good style ex. no messy glue or a new jug pocket on a established V8. Then I think it is ok, and if it is on your property who cares what people think.
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misha
Mar 31, 2003, 2:46 PM
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"chipping in good style"
OXYMORON
Did you ever consider that some walls don't have to be climbed? If they are blank they are still a beautiful thing to look at.
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nom
Mar 31, 2003, 9:58 PM
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i thought the whole point of rock climbing was being in nature, and cahllenging it. am i wrong? why would anyone want to change what is there? get a rock wall, and chnge it. din't deface what took thousands of yeaars to make.
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brutusofwyde
Mar 31, 2003, 11:44 PM
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In reply to: Carve a rock!!??? Preserve nature as beautiful as it is!!!! NEVER allow anyone to carve, paint... etc to any rock!
Michaelangelo's statue of "David" comes to mind in rebuttal.
As does the marker on my father's grave.
"Never make blanket statements!"
"One thing that I CANNOT tolerate is intolerance!"
That being said, playgrounds, buildings, gyms and concrete are a more appropriate medium for man-made climbing routes imho. Those are a renewable resource.
Brutus
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