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andy_lemon
May 9, 2003, 12:28 PM
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You guys bringing skirts with you!!! Skirts as in chicks!!!
"yo guys! Move the tents down, these guys are sleeping next to me!"
:lol:
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tenn_dawg
May 13, 2003, 3:46 AM
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Anything new over here? Just checking on developments.
Travis
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jds100
May 14, 2003, 2:11 AM
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As of May 8, Trevor withdrew "official" RC.com endorsement of the Beer Fest, and PMd notification of such. I've requested that he or someone organizing the Fest post notice of the withdrawal of RC.com's support of the event and permission to use the RC.com logo, but no one has done so. I've also been notified that the NFS has seen this Forum thread, and will not issue a permit for this gathering. Since you're asking, this is what's new.
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mhr2000
May 14, 2003, 3:59 AM
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Since we cannot do anything resembling an event, SHIRTS ARE NOW OFFICIALLY CANCELLED!
Sorry, but always somebody out to ruin a good time and I won't take any chance of being labeled an organizer.
So are they going to waste some police resources to bust everyone from this thread who climbs there those days? Wouldn't surprise me!
This is so typical and pathetic!
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roclymber
May 14, 2003, 6:31 PM
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I'd like to point out that if we went down individually, and just happened to be there all at the same time, by some miraculous coincidence....anyone following?
http://www.climbingsource.com/LocalBeta/Illinois/jacksonfalls.html
as noted here, and by basically every other jackson falls website, even a few government sites, the camping is FREE - exactly what is the definition of a group? and whatever it is, i'd like to think it's very hard to prove.
If we all just "met new friends" while climbing, I can't see how that qualifies as a group...
I'd like to point out a comment JDS made on our gathering, last time I checked, it was free for people to gather anywhere on public property - no permit necessary (climbing is probably where the permit will be needed. and in all honesty, if we can't get a single group permit for that, than Im willing to buy an individual climbing permit just to spite anyone who is against this.)
this isn't the FBI, or NSA that we are dealing with. and as far as the opinion by an advocacy group -- your thoughts have been noted.
you can't let a few people hold you down. so we can't have a banner or shirts. i wasnt going down to so. ill. for a banner and some shirts, let alone alcohol
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roclymber
May 14, 2003, 6:44 PM
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Oh, and as for the shirts, don't cancel them. Just don't pass them out until it is over, or the person has to leave. I don't have to wear it during the "gathering", but I sure as hell want to wear it again afterwards as some kind of token.
you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that if one guy has a bunch of shirts with the design and gives them to people as they leave that, that signifies it as an event.
Hell, if that won't work, just mail me my two shirts afterwards. I don't really care but I want my shirts!
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mhr2000
May 14, 2003, 7:13 PM
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I understand roclymber, but it's just not worth it. The way I see it jds100 is determined to stop us and has no problem pissing all over his fellow climbers in order to do so. Clearly he has the intentions of spending all his time and energy going after our small harmless group and if that's what gets his rocks off then so be it.
He can win the t-shirt issue I really don't care. He can win the donations issue, woopdeedoo. He can win the beer issue, so what. What he won't win is keeping me away from climbing which is all I cared about in the first place. So you win jds100.... we won't have our so called event. :wink:
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shank
May 14, 2003, 10:39 PM
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Andy you are the manager of the Ky section. could we just move it to RRG?
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mowz
May 15, 2003, 1:04 AM
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So, this thing still on? are we just meeting there as a "coincidence" and then climbing together? Please say yes. It would be a great grad gift to give myself (better if there were girls).
-Mowz
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bakedjake
May 15, 2003, 1:19 AM
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In reply to: As of May 8, Trevor withdrew "official" RC.com endorsement of the Beer Fest, and PMd notification of such. I've requested that he or someone organizing the Fest post notice of the withdrawal of RC.com's support of the event and permission to use the RC.com logo, but no one has done so. I've also been notified that the NFS has seen this Forum thread, and will not issue a permit for this gathering. Since you're asking, this is what's new.
I'm not taking any sides here... just some ideas to see you guys get your gig together and your groove back on.
There must be an alternative campsite nearby that you could use. That might get you rc sanctioned and eliminate the parks reluctance to issue a permit.
You might also come up with an alternative name like shank fest or whatever/whoever started the concept. "Beer Fest" is going to raise some eyebrows no matter how civilized your may be.
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jaylaka
May 15, 2003, 1:38 AM
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just let me know. i'm for for whatever and whenever. i am already planning on heading to the gorge july 1-6, but if southern illinois falls through, i can go wherever. we're flexible. :D
jen
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climberxterra
May 15, 2003, 4:13 AM
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I dont think we should give up that easy. Like roclymber
said its not like the FBI or anything. We should all just go there like were going to go climb witch we are, and if we all sit around a camp fire and talk what are the gonna do to stop us. They cant unless were doing somthing wrong. But whatever i just dont think we should give up.
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mhr2000
May 16, 2003, 2:22 PM
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No giving up on my part. I intend to be there as do most I suspect.
Here is the BIG ISSUE!!! concerning a permit.
What are noncommercial group uses?
Noncommercial groups uses are any activity conducted on NFS lands involving 75 or more people, either as participants or spectators, in which (a) no entry or participation fee is charged, and (b) the primary purpose of the activity is not the sale of a good or service. Examples of noncommercial activities include club or family recreation outings, reunions, and weddings. No permit fee, bonding, or insurance is required for noncommercial group uses.
I think the donations stuff may have played a part in this being upgraded to commercial group use.
Ditch the donations and any other talk of money (t-shirts) and it's no longer commercial.
With that said..... the noncommercial group use is 75 or more people.
HMMM! Let's see. 26 people listed on our front page. Unless they can prove we have 75 people coming just for this gathering then a permit is NOT REQUIRED.
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andy_lemon
May 16, 2003, 4:15 PM
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There is two options this gathering has...
1) We don't need a permit (officially) because we are under 70 or so people and we are not going to be on NFS land for commercial reasons. We must stay at a different location which is about 10 miles outside of the Jackson Falls main parking.
2) We pack up and take our business to Red River Gorge.
The decision is up to you, members of the gathering.
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andy_lemon
May 16, 2003, 4:28 PM
Post #215 of 238
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In reply to the prez...
In reply to: As of May 8, Trevor withdrew "official" RC.com endorsement of the Beer Fest, and PMd notification of such.
Actually it was May 7th... but unlike another organization that withdrew "official" endorsement of the fest, Trevor and rc.com has been working with us to see that we get what we need to have the fest. But yes, rc.com is not a sponsor.
In reply to: I've requested that he or someone organizing the Fest post notice of the withdrawal of RC.com's support of the event and permission to use the RC.com logo, but no one has done so.
Maybe if you acually had pm'ed the organisers (which, who has officially taken responsibility for this event?) we would have posted it somewhere. I had already had talks with mhr and Trevor about the withdraw of the logo from the shirts. It was done like almost 2 weeks ago...
In reply to: I've also been notified that the NFS has seen this Forum thread, and will not issue a permit for this gathering.
That's ok, since, we don't need one. :wink:
In reply to: Since you're asking, this is what's new.
it's actually kind of old info... eh. :lol:
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jaylaka
May 16, 2003, 4:52 PM
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In reply to: There is two options this gathering has... 1) We don't need a permit (officially) because we are under 70 or so people and we are not going to be on NFS land for commercial reasons. We must stay at a different location which is about 10 miles outside of the Jackson Falls main parking. 2) We pack up and take our business to Red River Gorge. The decision is up to you, members of the gathering.
we're fine camping wherever.
i'd be happy going to red river gorge too, but i'm already planning on going there july 1-6. so, since sourthern illinois is closer and i've never climbed there, i'd vote for ILLINOIS. :D
jen
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curt
May 16, 2003, 5:20 PM
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In reply to: No giving up on my part. I intend to be there as do most I suspect. Here is the BIG ISSUE!!! concerning a permit. What are noncommercial group uses? Noncommercial groups uses are any activity conducted on NFS lands involving 75 or more people, either as participants or spectators, in which (a) no entry or participation fee is charged, and (b) the primary purpose of the activity is not the sale of a good or service. Examples of noncommercial activities include club or family recreation outings, reunions, and weddings. No permit fee, bonding, or insurance is required for noncommercial group uses. I think the donations stuff may have played a part in this being upgraded to commercial group use. Ditch the donations and any other talk of money (t-shirts) and it's no longer commercial. With that said..... the noncommercial group use is 75 or more people. HMMM! Let's see. 26 people listed on our front page. Unless they can prove we have 75 people coming just for this gathering then a permit is NOT REQUIRED.
I really don't believe that voluntary contributions to defray actual costs of food, beverages, etc. for a group get-together would in any way violate the NFS definition above. My .$02.
Curt
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shank
May 16, 2003, 6:15 PM
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Acttually this is what the Forest service web page saysIn reply to: A rock climbing club is hosting an organized event to allow the general public to participate in a rock climbing activity on National Forest Lands. No fee is charged. Rock climbing is considered a high risk activity which would require the organizers to have a permit.
And I didn't think rc.com was ever a sponser. I thought it was free advertisment for something on the front of the shirts.
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mhr2000
May 16, 2003, 6:51 PM
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I hear you Curt, but the more fuel we take away from jds100's campaign the better.
Ha... a rock climbing club? Don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to know when I signed up as part of a club. I'll say it again.. this is and never was a hosted, organized event until jds100 labeled it as so and wanted us to start planning it as one. They need to a look at the Foster Falls Climbfest and get a clue as to what an organized event actually is.
Your right Shank, rc.com was never hosting anything. The logo was a simple request by us.
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roclymber
May 19, 2003, 5:40 PM
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As excited as I am about this whole trip, I'm going to have to pull out.
It isn't because of the fact that I've switched sides, but it just came to my attention that I registered for the freshman orientation at Mizzou for the dates of June 15-16/17? (they mailed me a postcard as a reminder, and it seems like it's too late to change anything...). This happens to be right between the 13-18, and that's a lot of driving to do in both directions...
Anyhow, I guess that just guarantees one more spot, and that there won't be 75 people.
I opt for another group climb some time later during the summer. RRG perhaps.
As for the issue at hand, I've just thought of something that JDS100 might be misunderstanding. Most of us believe there are going to be less than 75 people, but it may have come off to him and the NFS as if there would be hundreds upon hundreds or more (i.e. woodstock '69) and that would be truly distastrous. That would seem like the most logical explanation, if not, then they're just trying to keep a good thing down.
!Climb On!
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andy_lemon
Jun 6, 2003, 10:33 PM
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UPDATE...
After Shank and I contacted the proper authorities about issues concerning our event we received an application for a permit. We sent this letter in and after the NFS reviewed the application, a letter was issued to me and Shank. The NFS saw no need for a permit to be issued. The specifics were that the event is under 75 participants and that it is not commercial. The letter was signed John Taylor, Acting District Ranger.
There are some guidelines that must be followed as strictly as possible:
-No Entry, participation, transportation or other fees may be collected on National Forest Service land.
-No goods or services may be conducted on National Forest Service land.
-Participants must comply with all federal, state and local laws & regulations.
-Specifically, participants should insure compliance with laws associated with damage to vegetation, damage to property, camping, trespassing, hunting, fishing, motor vehicle operation and public intoxication.
After you've read and reviewed this page, make sure you fully understand what must be done for this event to proceed in the future. I hope to see you all next Friday... :wink:
Andy
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jaylaka
Jun 6, 2003, 11:06 PM
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we'll be there, arriving monday morning, staying until whenever.
i'll have a soon-to-be-four year old shorty with me. he's been great everytime i've taken him to devil's lake, so i'm hoping this goes over well. :D
jen
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tenn_dawg
Jun 7, 2003, 12:28 AM
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This is outstanding Andy. I am planning on being there. Gotta get in touch with Yvette. I'm back in memphis, and I think she's the only climber in 200 miles.
Even if she does put LIMES IN HER CARONA!!!
The Weenie. :lol:
Travis
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mnutz
Jun 7, 2003, 1:24 AM
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:D Glad to see people are still coming. My schedule has changed majorly, I will now be there Sat and Sun, and off and on throughout the week since I only live about a half-hour away. I'm looking forward to meeting everyone.
An alternative for people who would like to do something other than campfire every night, Saturday night (14th) will be a good one to be in Carbondale. If you would like a good meal after climbing Saturday, my girlfriend manages Southern Illinois' largest beer garden (and it is large), they are having their annual Reggaefest, huge pig roast in the garden(super yummy) and Natty Nation is playing, and, of course, cheap Red Stripes.
For those of you not feeling so irie, I reccomend, Mike's Music 10th Anniversary Celebration at Hangar 9. Cheap booze, The Sweet Tarts (all girl punk rock) and American Music (Violent Femmes tribute band that rocks)!!
PM me if you need details.
BTW - The pig roast is FREE! Probably be a $4 cover at the gate, then it's all you can eat. Terra Firma is opening for Natty Nation. Starts at about 7 pm.
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andy_lemon
Jun 7, 2003, 4:34 PM
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BUMP!
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