|
jumpingrock
Apr 21, 2003, 4:23 AM
Post #26 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 5692
|
With proper training a monkey could climb a V15. They are built to climb. Not like us humans. Another thing: Take off our shoes, throw away the chalk and then compare. Humans are the primary species because of our brains (most of our brains). Not because of any physical attributes. Take away that and then you have a more level playing field. And truthfully I think that nobody should talk unless they get some serious research.
|
|
|
|
|
sandbag
Apr 21, 2003, 4:45 AM
Post #27 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 1443
|
This is the best troll Yet!
Take a 20lb monkey and a 200lb human, and see what happens. Humans have become weaker mentally in the aspects of our domestication. Primates are sooo much more in touch with their "primal Instincts" so have a definate edge over humans in a lot of things: Fighting, fleeing, and climbing to name a few. So now as i was saying, " In this corner, straight from Madagascar, wieghing in at 20 lb........"
:shock:
|
|
|
|
|
sycamore
Apr 21, 2003, 5:43 AM
Post #28 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 26, 2002
Posts: 161
|
On a strictly physiological level, the monkey, hands down. If a climber's brain were some transplanted in, say, a chimp's head, and you let it train fingers for a few years. . . Their massive strength/weight advantage would blow any human climber away.
|
|
|
|
|
sid_rock
Apr 21, 2003, 5:55 AM
Post #29 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 516
|
In reply to: If a climber's brain were some transplanted in, say, a chimp's head, and you let it train fingers for a few years. . .
That's just about the stupidest thing I've heard since... this thread.
An intrinsic part of the equation is the monkey's intelligence, which affects its ability to train for the problem at hand over a period of time. If you change that by putting a human mind in a chimp's body, the original question is no longer relevant.
Not to mention, if such a transplant were in fact carried out, it would send our legal system into a tailspin since we would have to determine whether this new monkey-man hybrid you speak of is man or ape.
|
|
|
|
|
on_sight_man
Apr 21, 2003, 2:20 PM
Post #30 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2002
Posts: 628
|
I saw an article in Climbing about a group of Baboons running from a photagrapher. He then goes into a description of how they climbed a cliff to escape him and that they were doing huge dynos to very small holds. Talking about 5.15 climbing easy. Though he also described the hesitation that some of them had to do some of the moves.
I've also heard of troops of baboons that forage at the edge of cliffs and then escape predators by hurling themselves over the edge catching grass and edges as they fall to stop themselves. This was seen by a friend of mine in Bali.
So I think the argument about trees versus rocks is a no go. Monkeys are WAY better bth because of physiology AND because they do it ALL the time (even more than some of you)
|
|
|
|
|
craggy
Apr 21, 2003, 3:06 PM
Post #31 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 3, 2002
Posts: 112
|
I would have to say monkeys are FAR superior climbers to humans. First off monkey's (chimps) have exceptional strength to weight ratio! They have THE BEST ape index around, their arms are practivally dragging on the ground! They don't NEED legs for this reason! As for a crimpy 5.14d? That's not fair, considering ANY dyno problem a chimp can make up is EASILY a v20. Also, monkeys are fearless mofos, jumping 100s of feat in the air from one tree branch to another!! unreal! I bow down to the monkey's are supreme climbers....
Now, the real question is THIS: Mountain Goats or HUMANS!??!?!?!
Craggy
|
|
|
|
|
jumpingrock
Apr 22, 2003, 5:12 AM
Post #32 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 5692
|
Mountain goats don't climb technical routes. But they could run circles around any alpine climber alive. So basically your question is not really valid. And of course if you say that there are some alpine routes that require technical climbing then you should know that the goat would find another way up. pretty simple. Humans are terrible climbers. We are not built to climb. Anything that is biologically built to climb will be able to outclimb us.
|
|
|
|
|
craggy
Apr 22, 2003, 5:28 AM
Post #33 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 3, 2002
Posts: 112
|
Jumpin... heh I was trying to be funny about the goats... o well....
|
|
|
|
|
wongwong
Apr 22, 2003, 5:29 AM
Post #34 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 45
|
This is a sweet topic. 'Course the answer is that that monkey's are better. I saw a monkey wearing a pair of Anasazi Velcro's boulder V12 once. Full onsite, and the monkey had never climbed before (looked like his shoes were WAY too big too). Of course, the monkey used his tail for balance... so it was kind of cheating.
Arf
|
|
|
|
|
philbox
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003, 5:39 AM
Post #35 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 13105
|
The monkeys in Thailand are definitely far superior than any climber who has ever been there. As a matter of fact I can relate an anecdote told to me by a climber who was pumping himself silly on some outrageously overhung nightmare. Whilst in the middle of this crux a couple of monkeys were having an argument on the wall and one of them is running up one handed with a bunch of bananas in the other chased by the other monkey grabbing the first ones tail to slow him down.
Needless to say the climber was totally deflated by all these goings on. He felt so inadequate. This is a fairly regular occurence over there so my vote is that monkeys are definitely much better than humans. Ceppin maybe for those punk kids I saw sport climbing the other day.
...Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Apr 22, 2003, 3:26 PM
Post #36 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
When I was a little girl, my mother made me wear correctional shoes because my left big toe stuck out like a thumb. So basically I had one monkey foot. Imagine how much of a better climber I would have been if my mom had let nature take its course. I think my climbing desire is primal.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Apr 22, 2003, 4:40 PM
Post #37 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
on rock not, because they lack crimping strenght and technique :twisted:
on trees definitly yes
|
|
|
|
|
neadamthal
Apr 22, 2003, 4:50 PM
Post #38 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2002
Posts: 245
|
i was actually talking about this same topic with a friend over the weekend. we decided the exact same thing, that the best human can climb harder than the best monkey/primate, but given practice and the cognitive ability to 'figure out' a route, monkeys would DEFINATELY have the edge.
don't listen to them - i think its a great topic!
In reply to: In reply to: Humans climb better Take G. Bush for example... This is a serious forum discussing a serious topic of genuine interest to the scientific community. Attempts to politicize it are not appreciated. Please keep your responses limited to monkeys and their climbing abilities.
chill out sid... of all the people on this site, you should be mor than ready to sh*t on GW! we canadians love dumping on him (and, argueably of course, rightfully so!)...
personally i think GW would be a great climber. he seems to be able to climb out of all the holes he keeps digging for himself! so far, anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
sid_rock
Apr 22, 2003, 5:23 PM
Post #39 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 516
|
In reply to: chill out sid... of all the people on this site, you should be mor than ready to sh*t on GW! we canadians love dumping on him (and, argueably of course, rightfully so!)...
I stand by my objection. This is a topic of extraordinary scientific merit, and political tangents vitiate its sanctity. All discussions must be limited to monkeys, their climbing abilities, and perhaps other miscellaneous monkey-related issues.
On an unrelated note, I emailed a guy called Mark Cosslett who worked on a TV show that studied the climbing ability of baboons, and here’s what he had to say:
In reply to: Hi Sid, I’ve talked to Todd Skinner on this topic and he seems to agree that Baboons (at least) are better climbers than humans, but you have a point on the overhanging stuff – I haven’t seen them climb that so I can’t comment. Mark |
|
|
|
|
palo
Apr 22, 2003, 5:31 PM
Post #40 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 6
|
Monkeys aren't stupid enough to climb rocks.
|
|
|
|
|
sid_rock
Apr 22, 2003, 5:31 PM
Post #41 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 516
|
In reply to: Whilst in the middle of this crux a couple of monkeys were having an argument on the wall...
I suppose the monkeys were arguing on how to divy up the bananas?
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Apr 22, 2003, 6:19 PM
Post #42 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
In reply to: In reply to: Humans climb better Take G. Bush for example... This is a serious forum discussing a serious topic of genuine interest to the scientific community. Attempts to politicize it are not appreciated. Please keep your responses limited to monkeys and their climbing abilities.
Don't even tell me you haven't heard of GW referred to as 'Curious George'. The resemblance is remarkable!
|
|
|
|
|
sid_rock
Apr 22, 2003, 6:40 PM
Post #43 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2003
Posts: 516
|
In reply to: Don't even tell me you haven't heard of GW referred to as 'Curious George'. The resemblance is remarkable!
David Frum, a one-time speechwriter for George Bush and part of his inner clique, says the following about George Bush in his book, The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush: "He is impatient and quick to anger; sometimes glib, even dogmatic; often uncurious and as a result ill informed; more conventional in his thinking than a leader should be."
So, if anything, I would call Dubya Uncurious George.
Now can we please go back to talking about real monkeys?
|
|
|
|
|
reasontobehave
Jun 19, 2003, 8:35 PM
Post #44 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2003
Posts: 11
|
Someone asked about scientific on apes.
Check anthropologists, too. J.R. Napier and his wife Prudence, also Jane Goodall, a lot on the apes and chimps, some on how we might compare.
|
|
|
|
|
pinkamy
Jun 23, 2003, 1:35 AM
Post #45 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 78
|
Uhhh... monkeys are better.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Jun 23, 2003, 2:45 AM
Post #46 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
I can't believe I replied to this idiotic post. I need anohter banana.
|
|
|
|
|
ronamick
Jul 3, 2003, 1:24 AM
Post #47 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 28, 2002
Posts: 476
|
In reply to: In reply to: Lately I have been pondering a question that has no doubt vexed many-a-climber since the dawn of civilization: Are monkeys better climbers than humans? pretty sad if these are the things you think about... :roll:
Rrrrrrrrrrrr.... thought police! lighten up, bunkie!
|
|
|
|
|
micahmcguire
Jul 3, 2003, 3:19 AM
Post #48 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 889
|
no, humans are better than monkeys because humans are taller. humans can climb circles around goats, but goats can move pretty fast over steep terrain.
|
|
|
|
|
craggy
Jul 3, 2003, 3:26 AM
Post #49 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 3, 2002
Posts: 112
|
I went to the Toronto zoo not too long ago and saw a monkey climb what looked like a featureless rock in a second. It was literally a fingernail crack to a nearly vertical sloper and then dynoed 10 feet to a thin ledge and mantled ... this ledge was no thicker then your thumb.
Monkeys are born to climb stop being silly people...
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Jul 3, 2003, 3:43 AM
Post #50 of 62
(4267 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
Get the R&I anthology and read the monkey story. I guess the monkey climbed better than everyone, but was afraid of heights and would start batmaning the rope and loosing control of his bowels whenever he got scared. The monkey did not lead, and his poor social skills probably would have been a liability as a boulderer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
