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rwaltermyer
Jul 16, 2003, 12:41 AM
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Question: Could the world's best climbers (i.e. Graham) climb Realization if they did it on TR?
You're opinions of Toproping aside...what do you think??
How much easier do you feel that would make the climb?
Randy
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hasbeen
Jul 16, 2003, 12:48 AM
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If you're thinking that psychologically it would help that is doubtful. At this level, the fall is irrelevant. In fact, most climbers skip as many bolts as they can to save time on the redpoint. With that in mind, yes, if they were allowed to run the rope through only draws of their choice the difference could be significant. Physiologically, it becomes a matter of limits governed by time. An extra .30 seconds on a route can be all the difference in the world. For example, how many times have you pumped out on a route when if you'd have even 5 or 10 more seconds of strength you'd have made it? It can be a huge difference, though it's probably not an entire letter grade.
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xanx
Jul 16, 2003, 1:06 AM
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Realization is pretty steep... i would say u would need some directional anchors, or else risk pendulum falls into the ground from 30' up or whatever.... not to mention the extra long rope....
hehe j/k u knew someone would say something like that sooner or later...
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caphalon
Jul 16, 2003, 3:01 AM
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I think the biggest difference would be that if/when u fell, on TR you basically at the exact same point. On lead, you got to work up through the sequence to get to the crux move again. This sucks power and endurance.
I'm sure that while those guys don't get a full grade bump from tr something. Its probably immeasurably easier for them to tr than lead.
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brianthew
Jul 16, 2003, 3:28 AM
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I wanna see that potential 5.15c route on TR.....or rather, just the novelty of climbing with a 160+ meter rope! :D
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rwaltermyer
Jul 16, 2003, 12:36 PM
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In reply to: I wanna see that potential 5.15c route on TR.....or rather, just the novelty of climbing with a 160+ meter rope! :D
I've TR from a the top of a 150 ft cliff (Chickies Rock, lancaster, Pa) by tying two ropes together. This was before I was comfortable with leading.
It was pretty funny to look at.
But I guess what I was interested in was not the pyscological advantage, but the fact that they could just climb. No clipping. Just climb.
randy
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melonhead
Jul 16, 2003, 1:23 PM
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When you're climbing that hard, do you really think it matters?!?
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rwaltermyer
Jul 16, 2003, 1:39 PM
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certainly, on the holds they're climbing...its like asking someone to find a rest hold to clip on a V12!!! If you didn't need to bother stopping, then you can keep climbing.
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rockram
Jul 16, 2003, 3:08 PM
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any climb that is angled always feels kinda funky on top-rope, and sometimes, it's even easier on lead because on top-rope, you can get tugged on the cruxy parts, which totally throws off your balance and messes you up. and Realization is angled pretty steep, with holds that to me look like they're barely there. Chris Sharma is a super hero! hey, didn't Dave Graham do it too? i know he was working on it, so i'm sure he got it, because he's definately a super hero also!
hmmm...i think i wanna try Realization on top rope, then it'll be easy. LOL JK
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maculated
Jul 16, 2003, 3:26 PM
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Forget TR, how bout stick clipping and then just prussiking the climb?
Seriously, though . . . those of you thinking it would be easier, you ever TR or follow seriously steep stuff? Say you fall off . . . your body would be a few feet away from the wall and getting back would either require serious effort, or you would just have to lower down until you got back on. Pointless. Sometimes TR isn't an option in climbs.
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scottcody
Jul 16, 2003, 3:30 PM
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How about this
"Do think realization would be easier if you climbed it with hooks and aiders?"
This question has about has much of a point to it has the first.
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arostecrux
Jul 16, 2003, 3:34 PM
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Yea, what kind of question is this? Some of you really have Top Rope on your mind way too much. TR is necessary but there is no GLORY in TRing. TR is for when you are scared and still learning, like training wheels. Gee, do you think the Tour de France would be easier if they all used training wheels??????????
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rwaltermyer
Jul 16, 2003, 3:36 PM
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i just have to laugh because right now this is how your profile reads:
"arostecrux
Top Roper
Joined: 07 Oct 2002
Posts: 40"
:lol: :lol:
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styndall
Jul 16, 2003, 4:16 PM
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Didn't sharma skip like 3 bolts at the crux on his send? Given that he ignored the clipping (it would have been too hard), I doubt top-roping it would be any easier. A toproper would be doing the same thing sharma did: simply free-climbing and ignoring ropework.
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longalong
Jul 16, 2003, 4:48 PM
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In reply to: Gee, do you think the Tour de France would be easier if they all used training wheels??????????
Congrats!! I think that is the dumbest analogy I've ever heard.
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jimdavis
Jul 17, 2003, 4:47 AM
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On TR, your not dragging the rope up with you. So it's easier in the sence that there is less weight to carry, and no stopping to clip bolts.
However you would have a rope flopping around in your face the whole time.
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arostecrux
Jul 17, 2003, 8:21 PM
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I can see that Top Roping can be a sensitive subject here. Maybe you guys wouldn't be so defensive of TRing if you got a little more exposure on some lead climbing, on the sharp end.
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leaverbiner
Jul 17, 2003, 8:36 PM
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An honest answer - I doubt it would have had much effect on Chris' ascent . .. from his detailed description of the climb (1) he skipped numerous bolts that would have been difficult to clip (2) contrary to popular belief, there are "rests" on the climb where he could clip and recover from whatever extra energy was spent clipping previous bolts (3) the crux while hard (slight understatement) was more of a series of low percentage moves (4) at that level, clipping a pre hung draw is so easily and quickly accomplished that it doesn't require the expenditure of too much more energy (5) falling wasn't dangerous (so high up) or really a fear of his, he took the wipper many times and had become somewhat comfortable with it.
Those are my simple thoughts.
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rwaltermyer
Jul 17, 2003, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: An honest answer - I doubt it would have had much effect on Chris' ascent . .. from his detailed description of the climb (1) he skipped numerous bolts that would have been difficult to clip (2) contrary to popular belief, there are "rests" on the climb where he could clip and recover from whatever extra energy was spent clipping previous bolts (3) the crux while hard (slight understatement) was more of a series of low percentage moves (4) at that level, clipping a pre hung draw is so easily and quickly accomplished that it doesn't require the expenditure of too much more energy (5) falling wasn't dangerous (so high up) or really a fear of his, he took the wipper many times and had become somewhat comfortable with it. Those are my simple thoughts.
Sounds like a good post to put to this question to bed.... :idea:
Every side has been heard.
Thanx to everyone.
r a n d y
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thrillseeker05
Jul 17, 2003, 9:17 PM
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In reply to: Chris Sharma is a super hero! hey, didn't Dave Graham do it too? i know he was working on it, so i'm sure he got it, because he's definately a super hero also!
what is the answer to this? I'm saying no it hasn't been done.
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rwaltermyer
Jul 18, 2003, 2:39 AM
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i don't think he has either.
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wonderbread
Jul 18, 2003, 3:06 AM
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The real question is-if Scott Burke climbed it on TR would he claim a valid second ascent?
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rwaltermyer
Jul 18, 2003, 12:34 PM
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In reply to: The real question is-if Scott Burke climbed it on TR would he claim a valid second ascent?
no way. The climbing community wouldn't have that. My initial question was just to get thoughts on IF the climb would be easier not having to clip.
I'm not saying TR is as legitimate as lead.
randy
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arrettinator
Jul 18, 2003, 3:01 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The real question is-if Scott Burke climbed it on TR would he claim a valid second ascent? no way. The climbing community wouldn't have that. My initial question was just to get thoughts on IF the climb would be easier not having to clip. I'm not saying TR is as legitimate as lead. randy
Why not?
Every style of climbing is as legitimate as any other.
It's when people put their personal opinion in about it that we get the differences. And that's just it. It's different for each person.
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ptone
Jul 18, 2003, 5:18 PM
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I don't know (or care that much) who could or couldn't climb realization, but IMO tr is easier than lead for lots of reasons: you only have to stop to rest (no awkward strength-robbing clips over nerve racking drops), no psych-out because there's pretty much no fall potential (pendulums on super steep stuff aside, and those can usually be protected with a clip or two to undo, rather than a bunch to make...) Usually I've heard a climber can tr a couple grades above their lead onsight level. I know it is true for me.
The climbing community recognises this, and so weights tr importance low and lead high in the 'impressive, dude!' category. In the end, don't most of us climb purely because we love to climb? What is fun and makes you feel good to accomplish?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but this seems important...
The thing I didn't see anywhere above, strangely enough, is that tr is the way to a hard redpoint in most cases. Work the moves, the sequences, the stances, the clips, dial the whole thing in and know it is there in your heart, then get on the sharp end and send it for the redpoint.
peace, -p
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