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mortalmonkey
Jul 22, 2003, 1:51 AM
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alright, ive got this climbing partner taht i go to the gym with quite often. we have only gone on one trip together but it was with a big group. a while after the trip i caught him not paying attention with his hand off the brake while lead belaying me!!! that freaked me out. i havent been able to climb any lead routes very confidently after that. i have confronted him and i heard from other people that that wasnt the first time he has done something like that. i feel safe in the gym with him but is it wise to go on trips with him in the future? my aim is thekewlestprep.
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tenn_dawg
Jul 22, 2003, 2:00 AM
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What do you think?
Do you feel comfortable climbing with someone who you know to be a bad belayer?
It's your call, judgement decisions are what our sport is all about. You decide.
Travis
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watersprite
Jul 22, 2003, 3:12 AM
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it's your job to be sure he's watching you - look down before a move and if he is looking away, jerk the rope and tell him to watch you...
some people ask "watch me" whenever they're doing a hard move. Ask him to take up some rope. you could ask him when you come down if he is tired, or needs to take a break.
I have no problem with telling people to keep their eyes on me.
what is theklespret?
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dirtineye
Jul 22, 2003, 3:17 AM
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Just get another partner. taking the hand off the brake line is evil and stupid.
GO ballistic on the fool. I would. IN fact, I have, even when the belayer wan not belaying me and was a nice looking girl I really wanted to date.
If the guy can't pay attention and keep a hand on the brake line, he's a moron.
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cricket
Jul 22, 2003, 3:25 AM
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It's your choice - the belayer doesn't fall!
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thedesertnomad
Jul 22, 2003, 3:29 AM
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It's not that big a deal... my partner drives us to the crag blindfolded !!!! LOL Obviously kidding. I would opt to either have a serious talking to with that one, or maybe just throwing big rocks down and see if he pays attention then. Actually I wouldn't even feel safe in the gym (unless they were on gri gri) That partner owes you a lot of beer in my opinion !!!
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tonyeatworld
Jul 22, 2003, 4:44 AM
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Ok to start I agree and disagree with Watersprite. It's your job to make sure your belayer is kosher before hand. It is not your job to keep an eye on your belayer while you are climbing. If you have chosen a good belayer than you shouldn't have to worry about them doing their job.
If you make the mistake of going out again with somebody who actually takes their brake hand off the rope (a crime punishable by chopping off the hand in some middle eastern countries) than you have nobody to blame when you get hurt. Of course you might try to show him the error of his ways by having him climb about ten feet up and having him fall while your braking hand is not on the rope. If he fails to understand have him climb another 50ft or so up and then fall again. That way we can at least clean up another floater in the gene pool.
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ptone
Jul 22, 2003, 5:37 AM
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In reply to: it's your job to be sure he's watching you - look down before a move and if he is looking away, jerk the rope and tell him to watch you... ?
I usually agree with you, but in this case, not really. I want to worry about my climbing, not my belayer. If I'm up there trying something really hard, taking risky moves at the edge, I don't want to have to constantly be worrying about the belayer.
When I am belaying I consider it my job to to keep my climber safe, and do everything I can to keep them comfy too. If I can I'll anticipate their need for slack to clip etc, and be attentive for the one fall that really counts... the suprise one.
It's your decision whether you let him belay you again. You said you confronted him. Did he get defensive and blow you off, or did he apologise and say he understood your concern? He is going to belay other people who may not know their belay might be arbitrary. If you quit climbing with him you might say why, so at least he thinks about it.
peace,
-p
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trapdoor
Jul 22, 2003, 5:56 AM
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If someone is serious and wants to do they're best then they will. This guy does'nt sound like he is. Find someone who won't kill you.
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changling
Jul 22, 2003, 6:20 AM
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A belayer did that to me once while I was top roping in a gym. I gave him sh*t and never climbed with him again. I'm my opinion, if someone can't even do a basic simple task like holding the brake end of a rope, then he's not fit for climbing.
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enigma
Jul 22, 2003, 6:30 AM
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[quote="dirtineye"]Just get another partner. taking the hand off the brake line is evil and stupid.
GO ballistic on the fool. I would. IN fact, I have, even when the belayer wan not belaying me and was a nice looking girl I really wanted to date.
So What Else Is New :?: :lol: ^^^^^
As for this belayer , I wouldn't feel comfortable using him.
Find someone else. :idea:
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epic_ed
Jul 22, 2003, 6:39 AM
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Sounds like pretty unanimous advice. I wouldn't have any tolerance for compromising my safety. I'd ensure that he knows this is a serious matter to you and that he's in danger of losing a climbing partner. If he responds defensively or makes excuses, then it's probably time to move on.
Ed
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tradman
Jul 22, 2003, 11:14 AM
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It happens.
I was climbing indoors about a year ago with my girlfriend, who had only just started climbing, belaying me for practice. I got about three quarters of the way up a 40' route, and when I looked down to tell her to take before the crux, one of the INSTRUCTORS was standing beside her, brake hand off the rope, "correcting" her belay technique!!!!
Needless to say I let the whole wall now my feelings on that one....
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mortalmonkey
Jul 22, 2003, 12:25 PM
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In reply to: It's your decision whether you let him belay you again. You said you confronted him. Did he get defensive and blow you off, or did he apologise and say he understood your concern? He is going to belay other people who may not know their belay might be arbitrary. If you quit climbing with him you might say why, so at least he thinks about it. peace, -p |
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redpoint73
Jul 22, 2003, 12:41 PM
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I agree with tonyeatworld. Its your job to find a compatent partner BEFORE you hit the crag. It is not your job to watch him while he is belaying you. You can't watch all the time, and chances are that person will screw up while you aren't watching. Who knows how many times that guy messed up before mortal monkey noticed?
The first time I climb with a new partner, I get a trusted 3rd person to watch them belay. And I ask the "observer" covertly, so the belayer doesn't really know he is being watched.
Unfortunately, in my experience, if a person has been climbing for a while and still belays improperly, then the chances of their behavior improving is pretty small. Unless he is open to re-learning how to belay. In that case, a refresher course from a gym or climbing school might help. Or having an experienced friend watch and correct him for a day as he belays you (preferably on easy routes). Old habits are hard to break. Unless some time and legitimate effort is taken to correct his bad habits, he will likely just fall back into them when he gets complacent. Just talking to him probably won't help.
If you can't create a situation where you can trust him, you will have to find a new partner. It might be tough, but its better than getting hurt. Even if you don't end up hurt, you don't want to be constantly worrying about your belay. You will climb much harder when you can focus on the moves. I had to stop climbing with my brother-in-law because his belaying sucked, so I know about the strife it can cause. I'd catch him doing stupid stuff like rummaging in his pack for something to eat while he was lead belaying me! Its a bit awkward, because I still see him all the time. But I'm a much happier climber now that I'm not being belayed by him.
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redpoint73
Jul 22, 2003, 12:46 PM
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In reply to: i feel safe in the gym with him but is it wise to go on trips with him in the future?
Why would you feel safe with him in the gym? People get dropped and hurt in gyms too. Maybe you won't fall as far if you deck, but even a short groundfall in a gym can get you hurt pretty bad.
To answer your question: No, it is not wise to go on trips with him. If you take a lead fall while his hand is of the brake side of the rope, you will likely deck and get hurt.
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mortalmonkey
Jul 22, 2003, 3:26 PM
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In reply to: Why would you feel safe with him in the gym? People get dropped and hurt in gyms too. Maybe you won't fall as far if you deck, but even a short groundfall in a gym can get you hurt pretty bad.
yes but i have fallen and decked pretty far in the gym. plus i feel confident with him because i wont climb anything i cant flash when he belays me. it suks but he does go alot with me and he hasnt shown any signs of being unsafe since then. also i hang out with him outside of climbing just as much as in climbing. i have confronted him and dont feel a need to bring it up again. the problem however is that my body wont put in my full potential when he belays me. i want to trust him, he has caught all my lead falls. and i know i sound stupid for saying that i still want to climb with him but its just that maybee i can find a way to let him gain back my trust. maybee allow him to belay me on a super hard route. i asked my english teacher who got me hooked on the sport what to do and he said to confront him and if he denies it or something and acts all defensive to tell him that i wouldnt climb with him. but if he apolegizes and we make it into a learning experiance, to keeo goin,.. but what i did was is i kept goin but brought a friend to watch his belaying. scott didnt know about that(he is the kid who let go) and he did good at belaying. its just so frustrating because i just cant climb to my full potential. well, i think i will climb more with him at the gym but wont go on any trips alone with him until we both take some classes and he and i pass them. if you dissagree tell me why.. oh and the gym i go to has a really thick rubber floor. it looks like the took a blender to a hole lot of tires. i dont know if yyou can see the floor to well in this photo gallery but take a look. its a pretty lookin gym.
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redpoint73
Jul 22, 2003, 4:46 PM
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I am familiar with the shredded rubber gym surfaces, no need to view a picture.
I think its a great idea that you intend on taking a refresher class with your partner. You'll be doing it as a team, and he will have no reason to feel defensive about it. I think thats the best way for you to get comfortable with him. You might tell the instructor the reason for taking he class, so that he pays special attention to your partners belay -- which is the whole point.
I would suggest doing it sooner rather than later. If you push it off and procrastinate too long, than you might end up foregoing it altogether. Or your partner might feel like you are dredging up something that happened a long time ago. Comfront him about the issue, then take the class right away, while the experience is still fresh in both your minds.
Good luck. You'll be able to crank much harder when you don't have to worry about whether your partner is going to catch you if you fall.
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mortalmonkey
Jul 22, 2003, 5:38 PM
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man you guys rock
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