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mainline
Aug 20, 2003, 1:34 AM
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Registered: Aug 30, 2002
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You can follow Steven Koch as he tries to be the first to snowboard Everst from its summit at: stephenkoch.com. He is attempting to climb and then snowboard Everest via the Horbein Coulior. Another skier died trying the same descent. It's Monsoon season, so the mountain is currently under a lot of snow.
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pehperboy
Aug 20, 2003, 2:11 AM
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Registered: Jun 21, 2003
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Yet another good reason to follow the advice of Sir Edmund Hillary, and close Everest for a number of years and then restrict access to all but serious climbing parties. One tires of the circus Chomlungma has now become. In the short term it may harm Sherpas, but in the long term it may save their culture.
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chitlinsconcarne
Aug 20, 2003, 3:07 AM
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Registered: Jun 16, 2003
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This ones not tired of the "circus". Its the big peak and it'll always attract lots of climbers, qualified or not. Stephen definately fits the bill as a "serious" climber, with serious ascents around the globe. Choosing to up the ante with a snowboard descent is first class adventure.
Go Stephen go..
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tenn_dawg
Aug 20, 2003, 3:12 AM
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Registered: Mar 14, 2002
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Yeah,
And there's a guy who has hiked the AT twice while carrying a tuba.
How about the first ascent of Everest in Sandals. Imagine the Teva sponsership that you could get.
Oh, or I could downclimb the Nose of El Capitan while carrying a naked stripper in one of those baby backpacks. Bet nobody's ever done THAT before!!
...sheesh...
This whole train of thought kind of makes me crazy.
Travis
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muncher
Aug 20, 2003, 5:53 AM
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I don't know about you guys but in most peoples books Stephen Koch is a very serious and accomplished climber. Just because he is better known for his snowboarding exploits doesn't mean his is some bumbly climber.
Sure everest is becoming a bit of a circus but what is wrong with that. Of course the fact that it is no longer some unattainable summit means that more and more people will have a go at it. What is comes down to is whether of not anyone cares anymore, if you don't then so be it. Hillary has my respect but I think he is trying to keep the summit as some sacred place only accessible to the elite in the climbing world. The fact is that those days are long gone. It used to hard to climb El Cap (still is but...) but how many people have climbed routes there now?
Climbers should have enough sense themselves as to what they can and can't do, besisdes, being experienced is no guarantee that you will survive.
How would you determine whether or not someone is experienced enough? What criteria would you use? it would just give a bunch of idiots the power to say who can and can't climb. How could you prove to someone what you have climbed? Sure you may have a few photoes here and there but it would eventually come down to having to go through some stupid fu#$ing program run a bunch of bumbly idoits whereby you had to do X and Y courses and go on guided expeditions on smaller peaks until you got enough points in your little book to be able to climb your real objective.
Leave it open to all who are brave enough or stupid enough to try.
Sorry about the rant, just had to waste another precious few minutes at work before I can head out the door.
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organic
Aug 20, 2003, 8:21 AM
Post #6 of 28
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Registered: Jul 16, 2003
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So I read this guys page and what is considered a snowboarding decent? This guy is like well that part looked icey blah blah so I climbed further down and so on and so forth. I think this guy just needs a reason to spray and make some extra cash. I mean come on like he is really going to drop in from the summit of Everest, most likely find a nice safe place with no crevasses or hazards, board and tape a video for a little bit like he did on the other mountains and what is this stuff about taking one foot out of a binder and strapping on a crampon ? Thats a snowboarding decent... *shrugs*
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pehperboy
Aug 20, 2003, 3:01 PM
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Registered: Jun 21, 2003
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In reply to: Sure everest is becoming a bit of a circus but what is wrong with that.
Stellar, just stellar. Kind of like saying, "ya, climbers are putting bolts in Mount Rushmore, chipping the faces all up, pissing on Washington's nose, what's wrong with that?" Except in this case it's much, much worse. Everest/Chomolungma was for millenia and remains a revered place of those who live there. The mountain was and is considered the Mother Goddess, a living deity able to hear prayers and take lives.
In the early 20th century European climbers came along and the locals were a little shocked about it all, but happy to assist (and bring in some money to assist in their difficult existence).
The indigenous cultures in the Himalayas may have readily accepted the first assaults on Everest and other mountains, but they've had to tolerate a lot in the process. Not to mention the garbage which now litters what was once one of the most beautiful and pristine places on earth, the damage to local cultures in palpable.
Such ventures as Koch is now doing have little to do with mountaineering or the spirit of mountaineering - which was what Sherpas and others who live near Everest first consented to. It's about money and promotion. No doubt some snowboard, boot and clothing companies put up a sack of loot in anticipation of a movie and press coverage.
To try and claim this is all well and good is nothing but ignorant.
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alpinerockfiend
Aug 20, 2003, 3:30 PM
Post #8 of 28
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In reply to: Such ventures as Koch is now doing have little to do with mountaineering or the spirit of mountaineering - which was what Sherpas and others who live near Everest first consented to. It's about money and promotion. No doubt some snowboard, boot and clothing companies put up a sack of loot in anticipation of a movie and press coverage.
Pehperboy, maybe when you have a resumé that can be called comparable to that of Koch's, you'll render a valid opinion. Until then, STFU.
Stephen has trained for years for this climb/descent. Along the way, he has pioneered numerous snowboard descents here in the Tetons (The Enclosure, Apocolypse, and Black Ice Couloirs, and dozens of others for example), climbed and descended 6 of the 7 highest peaks in the world, and won the Golden Ice Axe. Do not doubt his credibility or level of experience.
On a personal note, Stephen and I are both from Jackson, WY. I learned to climb while watching him in the gym and seeing him occasionally at the resort or in the park. I'm close to a generation younger. There is a small circle of climbers my age here in Jackson, and Stephen has never done anything but support us. He knows us all on a first-name basis and is always ready with a belay during the long winter training sessions.
For whatever the reason, Stephen's been given a lot of bad press for being a "corporate sponsor-monger". Sure, he is a bit of a media player, but who the hell has enough money to travel to Everest for an extended period of time while paying for it all out of their own pockets? Stephen climbs, he doesn't work. He needs sponsors to support his climbs (as do most other professional mountaineers). He is deserving of much respect from all fields of mountaineers (even armchair mountaineers like you, pehperboy).
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astone
Aug 20, 2003, 4:14 PM
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Registered: Feb 17, 2002
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Hey Guys,
I've got a good sized bladder. Can I join your pissing match? Are we allowed to piss for ourselves, or do we all have to piss vicariously?
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roclimb
Aug 20, 2003, 4:35 PM
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I think anyone with the balls and charisma to climb an snowboard everet is a ver ery impressive achievement. Someone skiiing ir boarding that is one of the most if not the grandaddy of all descents period. I wisah warren miller would film it.
You guys pooking at it, I would like to see you guys get the balls up to do even the approach to the glacier there
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chitlinsconcarne
Aug 20, 2003, 5:08 PM
Post #11 of 28
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Registered: Jun 16, 2003
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Any alpine ascent that I do is in better style if I can ski back down. Beats the hell out of a slog every single time. Even more props to the folks that can pull out a wing and fly down. Nothing like standing in the midst of an epic hike out, watching some guy glide overhead and saying to yourself, "That dude'll be at the bar whilst I'm still taping blisters in the dark.. doh!"
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robmcc
Aug 20, 2003, 5:28 PM
Post #12 of 28
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Registered: Apr 1, 2003
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In reply to: I think anyone with the balls and charisma to climb an snowboard everet is a ver ery impressive achievement. Someone skiiing ir boarding that is one of the most if not the grandaddy of all descents period. I wisah warren miller would film it.
I've never been at serious altitude, but from what I've heard and read, I have to wonder if you'd have the mental faculties to say nothing of physical capability of managing a snowboard at 8000m. Sorry, I tend to see it as unwise risk taking for fleeting glory in the eyes of a few.
In reply to: You guys pooking at it, I would like to see you guys get the balls up to do even the approach to the glacier there
I doubt it takes any at all to get that far. It does take money. You pay, I'll play. :)
Enough said. Be impressed by this if you choose. I'll have to stick with the crowd that thinks Everest has become a circus, and that this is not a good thing.
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robmcc
Aug 20, 2003, 5:31 PM
Post #13 of 28
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In reply to: Stellar, just stellar. Kind of like saying, "ya, climbers are putting bolts in Mount Rushmore, chipping the faces all up, pissing on Washington's nose, what's wrong with that?"
Rushmore's already chipped to hell and back, in case you missed it. The original formation didn't have 4 dead guys carved into it. :P I generally don't like bolting, but I wouldn't have an ethical qualm at all about somebody putting a rap station right in George's left nostril.
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coldclimb
Aug 20, 2003, 5:46 PM
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The issue here is not whether anyone has enough balls to do something hard, the issue is that everest has turned into an opportunity to set world records more than anything else. All these people are climbing it in order to do some normal thing that has never been done on top of everest before, like jumping rope, or hitting a golf ball, or snowboarding. That is what is so stupid about this. Sure the guy is a great climber and boarder, and sure he's got guts, but this setting record stuff on everest is getting old. Pretty soon it will be "most scarves knitted from goat hair on the summit of everest." :roll:
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pehperboy
Aug 20, 2003, 7:25 PM
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Registered: Jun 21, 2003
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Never did I intend to question or impugn the reputation of Mr. Koch. Neither can I even remotely compare my climbing abilities with his. That does not rob me of the ability to express an opinion which many share.
As I see it, it's his climbing resume which only makes an atrocious situation worse. He should be aware that he's doing no favour to Everest or those who have lived there for who knows how many thousands of years. Sure, he brings them a little bit of money but such irresponsible displays of machoism only continue to rob their culture.
It is not Mr. Koch I am attacking, I'm sure he's a fine fellow and supportive of other climbers. It's the Americanization of Everest and environs which is so sickening. My Rushmore comparison was a bad one. But we in "the west," North America, Europe, Australia, rightly take great exception to Islamist extremist using violence in their desire to impose their ideas upon us.
The invasion of Everest in non-violent ways - even done under the guise of altruistic acts in some instances - isn't much different in the ultimate effect. Turning Everest into a circus act is disrespectful and destructive of the mountain and those who live there.
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chitlinsconcarne
Aug 20, 2003, 7:34 PM
Post #16 of 28
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Registered: Jun 16, 2003
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In reply to: The issue here is not whether anyone has enough balls to do something hard, the issue is that everest has turned into an opportunity to set world records more than anything else. All these people are climbing it in order to do some normal thing that has never been done on top of everest before, like jumping rope, or hitting a golf ball, or snowboarding. That is what is so stupid about this. Sure the guy is a great climber and boarder, and sure he's got guts, but this setting record stuff on everest is getting old. Pretty soon it will be "most scarves knitted from goat hair on the summit of everest." :roll:
Except that ski mountaineering, of which snowboard mountaineering is another form, has a long and rich legacy in mountaineering history. Based on that fact, and that no one is climbing Everest for the purpose of jumping rope, hitting golf balls, or knitting for that matter, your opinion seems contrived and without any basis whatsoever.
Stephen is currently one of the best in the world at what he does. He's a ski mountaineer of exceptional ability, pursuing his profession on the biggest mountains of the world. Whats to object to-the fact that he climbs these peaks, or the fact that he boards down them?
As a professional he certainly does self advertise. Damn right, he's the product and he's got to sell his spancers on his ability and visibility. Not the funnest part of climbing, but groveling for sponsorship dollars is part of being a pro and it has been for as long as the career path has existed.
Summary:1st- Stephen is the real deal, a climbing professional with a rock solid resume. 2nd-What he's trying to do is very, very hard and fits perfectly within classic mountaineering tradition . And 3rd-Nobodies knitting on the summit of Everest, so whats that got to do with a ski mountaineer bagging the worlds highest point anyway?
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robmcc
Aug 20, 2003, 8:21 PM
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In reply to: And 3rd-Nobodies knitting on the summit of Everest, so whats that got to do with a ski mountaineer bagging the worlds highest point anyway?
I guess "bagging the world's highest point" has become tarnished. I wont' say it isn't hard. I don't know if I could do it, but I do know that you can get to the top and likely back down again if you have the money. If you're a rich, New York socialite, for example. So if you're doing the "bagging", you're either one of the common people (like me?) for whom doing it is still extraordinary in spite of the hordes who have gone before, or you have another reason. And he does. He's going there, by the sound of it, not to climb Everest (because let's be honest, who cares. Been done. Been done by gumbies with guides. Been done by a game show.) but to snowboard down it.
I don't hear anyone saying the guy isn't a stellar mountaineer, it's just that summitting Everest doesn't prove that anymore. Which is sad, really, when you think about it. Maybe that's what turns me off on the whole Everest thing. You say people aren't going there to hit golf balls or iron shirts or whatever. Maybe not, but I'll tell ya they ARE hitting golf balls or ironing shirts because if they didn't, no one would notice. They'd be lost in the tourist noise. One more name on a list too big for anyone to bother remembering.
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muncher
Aug 20, 2003, 11:29 PM
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pepherboy, there is alot more to the himalayas than everest you know, I think it would be a reasonable assumption to say that trekking has a far greater impact on the himalayan environment and its people. Would you prefer an approach more akin to the TPWS in Hueco. Sure you could limit the number of attempts per year and have the peak open to all that can afford the associated fees that would arise with such a high demand. The fact is that everest is no longer the pinicle of mountaneering. Sure it is still f@#$ing hard work and a huge accomplishment but it is no longer only available to the elite of the climbing world.
It is the highest point on earth so it is always going to get a heap of attention. I am not saying that it is ok to go ahead and trash the place (maybe some regulations could be introduced with reference to waste management at base camps etc) but if someone wants no knit on the summit then what is wrong with that. Or are people just scared that that a stunt like this belittles their own accomplishments, maybe they see it as like someone sending their project in flipflops.
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bananaman
Aug 21, 2003, 1:16 AM
Post #19 of 28
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Registered: Jul 28, 2003
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All y'all who are giving Koch and his ascent and decent $hit are idiots! He is a hell of a good climber that is trying to climb and decend one hell of a route. All I can say is I hope his big ass balls don't weigh him down when he is climbing.
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alpinerockfiend
Aug 21, 2003, 4:52 AM
Post #20 of 28
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In reply to: Or are people just scared that that a stunt like this belittles their own accomplishments, maybe they see it as like someone sending their project in flipflops.
I think this is similar to the point I see as well.
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chitlinsconcarne
Aug 21, 2003, 6:23 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: no one is climbing Everest for the purpose of jumping rope, hitting golf balls, or knitting for that matter, your opinion seems contrived and without any basis whatsoever. Don't you love it when people post facts, but really don't have a clue how stupid this world has become? Contrive this: :lol: http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28451&highlight=jump+rope+everest http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33296&highlight=golfing+record
Best reread your own links and my post. You really think they were climbing Everest for those reasons? Oh son, they suckered you sooo bad! :) I threw frisbees off El Cap..but that wasn't really the point of all that effort, now was it? Then again, maybe it was. And maybe theres this whole underground contingent of us "circus" types out there doing silly things in high places and laughing and having fun while you grimly pound the keys in an unending lament for the pathetic state of things...
sincerely yers and laughing all the way to the top..
chitlins.
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coldclimb
Aug 21, 2003, 6:27 AM
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well, the jump roper had three other goals, I'll admit that jump roping wasn't his only objective, but that does not make this record any less stupid. The golfer, by all appearances, was going up there to hit golf balls from different spots. hmm.
Now that we've taken this thread on a sidetrack to argue meaningless points, I still say it's dumb how people keep setting these records on everest just because there are things that have never been done on top of the mountain. Sure, Koch is really good at what he does, and he's got more guts than most people, but these records just keep piling up, and most of them are not nearly as cool as what he is doing. He won't be the only one to ever do it, he'll just be the first. Records like this are unlimited in possibilities. Someday I may very well be the first to scream "PULSAR CANNONS ARE THE CARPOOL LANE" from the top of everest, and maybe even throw a wooden football engraved with those words. :roll:
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chitlinsconcarne
Aug 21, 2003, 6:53 AM
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In reply to: well, the jump roper had three other goals, I'll admit that jump roping wasn't his only objective, but that does not make this record any less stupid. The golfer, by all appearances, was going up there to hit golf balls from different spots. hmm.
hmm, envision the distinction between climbing Everest and climbing on Everest. People do silly things on mountains all the time, climbing them in the first place could qualify as the silliest of all. All of this ignores the fact that a fanciful scenario was created (people climbing Everest to jump rope, etc.) and then bogusly related to the efforts of Stephen Koch, a solid professional mountaineer who is pursuing his goals within the context of his chosen speciality-the mainstream alpine sport of ski mountaineering. A classic fallacious arguement. Try educating yourself about the sport. Spend some time with boards on your back and visions of faraway summits and perfect descents dancing in your head. Dream a little. Then come back and reread these silly disses of this fine mountaineers efforts. I guarantee they'll seem like the small, sackless internet sour grapes that they are.
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oudinardin
Aug 21, 2003, 7:56 AM
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blobbity, blobbity, blobbity, blobbidy blaaaah. Much needed money that could be spent elsewhere, at least in my time of climbing. Good luck to ya Kochman. If it were me I'd have my axe in hand and my Scarpas on. It's all about control. Scarp, scarp, scarp, "Damn this strip of ice appeared, my ass and body facing the other way, if only I had the control." Plankers should stick to the streets on peaks like this.
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