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dynoguy
Sep 29, 2003, 5:10 PM
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I now this has probably beeb discussed before, but what is the difference between an on sight and a flash?
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mustclimb69
Sep 29, 2003, 5:14 PM
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Check in the climbing terms on the left margin
"no prior knowledge"
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rrrADAM
Sep 29, 2003, 5:15 PM
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For future reference:
Climbing Terms guide on the site here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/term.php
Onsight is clean ascent on lead, first time, with no beta. Usually pertains to Routes.
Flash is same thing, but usually pertains to problems (bouldering), also can be a beta flash where beta was known, but still climbed clean first attempt.
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dynoguy
Sep 29, 2003, 5:17 PM
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so a redpoint is when you place all the gear yourself while a flash is when the gear is preplaced
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shank
Sep 29, 2003, 5:18 PM
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Both are leading (or the bouldering equivalent of leading) a route clean first try,but...
onsight=no beta (info) of the route.
Flash is with beta
if you watch someone else climb it first then it is a flash. If you just walk up and climb it, knowing absolutly nothing about it, it is an onsight.
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vertical_reality
Sep 29, 2003, 5:21 PM
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In reply to: so a redpoint is when you place all the gear yourself while a flash is when the gear is preplaced
A pinkpoint is when the gear is preplaced.
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dynoguy
Sep 29, 2003, 5:21 PM
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so what is the difference between a redpoint and a flash?
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 29, 2003, 5:32 PM
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a redpoint means it took you more then one try to climb the route without falling.
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dynoguy
Sep 29, 2003, 5:33 PM
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Thanks for clearing that up
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steakboy
Sep 29, 2003, 6:40 PM
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is it still a flash/redpoint when done on toprope?
or does that rather count as a pinkpoint.
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crazygirl
Sep 29, 2003, 6:43 PM
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no wander this topics is discussed so much - no one knows the answer.
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koravas
Sep 29, 2003, 6:58 PM
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It doesn't seem like there is really a term for climbing a route on toprope with no falls. I usually just say "sent", seems to imply no falls most of the time. Same goes for bouldering, if its not a flash or onsight, what is it? Red point doesn't seem to work for bouldering. Once again I usually say sent, works better for bouldering too. You can't send a boulder problem with falls!
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norskagent
Sep 29, 2003, 7:19 PM
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when you flash or redpoint on someone else's pre-placed gear, it's a "pudpoint".
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dynoguy
Sep 29, 2003, 7:21 PM
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climbing a top roped route without any falls is a green point
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jt512
Sep 29, 2003, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: It doesn't seem like there is really a term for climbing a route on toprope with no falls.
"Browniepoint." Not to be confused with "brownpoint," which is like a "yellowpoint," only worse.
-Jay
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dingus
Sep 29, 2003, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: It doesn't seem like there is really a term for climbing a route on toprope with no falls.
Sure there is... it's called "My belayer fucked up and dropped me!"
Cause otherwise THERE ARE NO FALLS IN TOP ROPING!!! Sort of definitional, don't you think? When you let go of the rock when top roping, behold, thou shalt not fall! (unless your belayer fucked up and dropped you)
That's why, when you successfully climb a line on TR without falling we say, "Props to you koravas, you top roped it! Nicely done."
Adding "without falls" would be like, well DUH!!!
DMT
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antigrav
Sep 29, 2003, 7:49 PM
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Maybe I'm just a bit slow, maybe I just didn't get your pun, dingus, or maybe your post simply didn't make any sense... :?
Wrt. falling/not falling, surely there is no difference between leading or TR'ing, if the climber gets to the top?! In either case, if climber falls and continues, we're talking hangdogging... And it's a given that the TR isn't tight enough to be of any help to the climber. (I.e., falling on the TR will be equivalent to falling on lead just after clipping the rope at waist height.)
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crazygirl
Sep 29, 2003, 7:55 PM
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In reply to: It doesn't seem like there is really a term for climbing a route on toprope with no falls.
- onsight applies to lead
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baalzimon
Sep 29, 2003, 9:09 PM
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It was already said here, and i agree, that Flash and Onsight both can apply to bouldering. flash is with beta, onsight is without beta.
my group of climbing friends calls a TR without faling a "catpoint" which comes from us calling eachother "cat petters" which is another way of saying that someone is a p _ _ _ _ .
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mungeclimber
Sep 29, 2003, 9:44 PM
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Eric Horst in the glossary for "How to climb 5.12" says:
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flash: to climb a route first try without ever having touched the route, but with the aid of beta.
beta: any prior information about a route...
on-sight: when a route is climbed first try and with absolutely no prior information of any kind.
redpoint: lead climbing a route bottom to top to top in one push
(i read this to mean "no falls" or "hangs" thus by definition it would not be an on-sight or flash)
From Owens River Gorge Climbs, 1991- Green Cover
Flash: Leading a pitch without falls and without previous knowledge of the pitch.
Redpoint: leading a pitch without falls or hangs, which you have been on before.
Pinkpoint: Similar to redpointing, only the gear has been pre-placed.
Brownpoint: leading a route with falls or hangs.
Yellowpoint: top-roping a route without falls.
back in the day, i thought "Flash" was the same as onsight, but typically applied to top ropes. You could flash a TR (i.e. no HANGS, but if you lead it without falls or hangs, then it was an onsight.
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lunatixx
Sep 29, 2003, 11:30 PM
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do you guys know, where all these terms can be found in french ? i do understand that even french climbers use these terms to describe the rock or their technics, but i really can't find the logic in all these words. now i don't want to bother any of you with my question... i was just thinking of it, while reading this discussion...
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headchop
Sep 29, 2003, 11:49 PM
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In reply to: Wrt. falling/not falling, surely there is no difference between leading or TR'ing, if the climber gets to the top?!
I'm gonna assume you've never led a route.
Neglecting the mental aspects, there's often a big difference when you have to try to clip in your draw and then rope while hanging off nasty little holds which you could simply quickly climb past while on TR.
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socalbolter
Sep 29, 2003, 11:57 PM
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fortunately (unfortunately?) i've been around long enough to remember all this crap from when it was first used here in the states.
onsight and flash (as have been defined here already) apply to both bouldering and routes. (onsight= first try no previous knowledge, flash = first try with previous knowledge).
redpoint and pinkpoint have been properly defined already where as they both are succesful leads of a route after having previously tried the route (red = placing gear/draws as you go, pink = preplaced gear or draws).
a successful toprope has been called a yellowpoint (as in being too yellow to lead it). this used to also be broken down when done first try by called the ascent either a topsight or topflash.
if you think this is silly and spliting hairs you should have been around back then. it seems there were a dozen or so other terms that have thankfully been lost in obscurity.
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toejam
Sep 30, 2003, 5:02 AM
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So how much beta is "any beta". If you look at the picture of the line in guidebook is it now a flash instead of an onsight? What if you are following bolts? Or what if someone says "that there crack is a 5.9"?
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jgill
Sep 30, 2003, 5:16 AM
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Jargon is the enemy of the people. 8)
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