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andypro
Oct 20, 2003, 10:52 PM
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and I'm not talking porn :lol:
What do you guys use as your layering system? What brands and styles do you like best?
For me, It's nothing spectacular. I've got the long johns and then fleece (one or two layers depnding on temp) then the shell.
On really cold climbs I'll wear insulated bibs, but still prefer to leave he normal layers on top. Gettin rid of heat seems to be harder than makin it alot of times :roll: I'll carry a down sweater or parka for the really nasty snaps to throw on at a belay or whatnot.
The stuff Iv'e got now is lacking, to say the least. and all gadgety. Lookin for a good blah boring plain shell. I hate pockets :evil: Maybe one big pouch in the front. and a non detachable wide hood that isn't clutteres with velcro and drawstrings etc. Something like the epic line from Mountain Hardware.
I also like mittens over gloves, and wear glove type liners to keep the bite off if I really need the dexterity. Belaclavas under the helmet, beanie and scarf (breathes better for me) when sans helmet.
So how about you guys? What do you do to keep warm (or cool) when the mercury shrinks? Any little tips or tricks to share that you've found work well over the years....
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jono
Oct 20, 2003, 11:00 PM
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i wear carhart pants. underarmor and a flannel or longjohns.
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cthcrockclimber
Oct 20, 2003, 11:01 PM
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Hot chillis fleece underwear.
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jono
Oct 20, 2003, 11:02 PM
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oh sorry i didnt see this was ice climbing. never been ice climbing so i dont know :( but the above is what i wear on winter rock climbs
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rendog
Oct 21, 2003, 1:33 AM
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In reply to: i wear carhart pants. underarmor and a flannel or longjohns.
I know a guy up here and that's what he wears ice/mixed climbing.
me I have a pair of bib gore pants, long johns and a pair of cut off sweatpants shorts. wear that in -20 C. on top a light poly shirt for approach then change into a dry heavy pile poly shirt. a fleece vest and my shell. that's warm up to about -10 C. colder I wear a fleece jacket under my shell. I've found the key is to change into something dry after the approach. that helps A LOT
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soma
Oct 21, 2003, 1:49 AM
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Okay I don't ice climb but I am outside in the cold quite a bit and I have to say that I love my down vest. It would suck if it got wet, but I don't let it.
Dave
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andypro
Oct 21, 2003, 3:39 AM
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In reply to: Okay I don't ice climb but I am outside in the cold quite a bit and I have to say that I love my down vest. It would suck if it got wet, but I don't let it. Dave
Iv'e got a heavyweight fleece vest that I've been wearing ALOT lately. I love that thing, but it's got a hood (big warm comfy hood) which means going under a shell is a nono :( if I could find one like it without a hood, I dont know if it would ever leave my body on cold days.
And to everyone else who reads this...I just stuck it in alpine/ice becuase that's what I was thinking at the moment I brought it up. Doesn't mean you all can't add in though. The more discussion the marrier!
(edit for gross display of atrocious typing :lol: )
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jookyhead
Oct 21, 2003, 3:43 AM
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Probably the only thing I consistently wear as one of my layers is my long sleeve biking jersey. It's always kept me nice and warm but it breathes really good. Of course the main reason is I'm cheap and can't afford to buy everything I need for each sport I do...
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pico23
Oct 21, 2003, 3:59 AM
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In reply to: So how about you guys? What do you do to keep warm (or cool) when the mercury shrinks? Any little tips or tricks to share that you've found work well over the years....
My layering system rarely changes. Its simple and no frills. Basically I don't wear much while on the move. I overheat quickly and sweat only makes you colder and dehydrates you faster. I prefer being a little cold on the move than to be sweating.
Legs:
lightweight polypro pants
goretex bib or schoeller extreme pants
Upper body:
coolmax long sleeve zip neck
Powerdry long sleeve zip neck
light weight merino wool sweater (as light as 100 wt fleece but packs down smaller and as warm as 200. breathes MUCH better)
Goretex Shell
helmet
Hands:
Schoeller Gloves for climbing
Goretex with pile liner and haphalon palm for belaying
Feet:
Plastic doubles with added insulation in the sole
Smartwool mountaineering weight socks
smart wool or coolmax liners
prescription strength anti perspirant (proven by the DoDefense to keep feet warmer)
Thats the max I'll be wearing at any time while climbing or approaching. In most (almost all) cases I don't even wear the sweater, just the two long sleeve tee's with the shell vented wide open or in my pack.
In my pack:
wool sweater (the one listed above)
belay jacket (primaloft)
mittens with wool/thinsulate liners
hat or balaclava (if its really cold and windy then I take both for the face protection)
goggles (depending on conditions)
The system doesn't change much based on temperature. The only thing I might add is more gloves. If your hands freeze out there your gonna get hurt or die so having warm dry gloves in reserve is essential. The only other thing I never leave out is a hat. To me a hat is better than a extra layer on the torso and easier to regulate. If it's warm I take a simple polypro helmet liner, if it's cold and windy I take a helmet liner with windstopper ear flaps (makes my ears toasty but I can't hear crap, however if you punch holes in the ear flaps you can hear better), if its really cold I layer the hat with a lightweight polypro balaclava to wear under all of that. And for above treeline I have a full coverage windstopper balaclava that works well with goggles.
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deleted
Deleted
Oct 21, 2003, 4:19 AM
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jack & coke. :wink:
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pico23
Oct 21, 2003, 4:19 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Okay I don't ice climb but I am outside in the cold quite a bit and I have to say that I love my down vest. It would suck if it got wet, but I don't let it. Dave Iv'e got a heavyweight fleece vest that I've been wearing ALOT lately. I love that thing, but it's got a hood (big warm comfy hood) which means going under a shell is a nono :( if I could find one like it without a hood, I dont know if it would ever leave my body on cold days.
Fleece is WAY too bulky for climbing use. You must carry a 80L pack. What you need is a good ultralight primaloft or down belay jacket. Packs down really well and you don't have to carry tons of extra layers. Just put it on over your shell at belays. That fleece sounds like it would be just fine for a belay jacket if it was big enough to fit over your shell.
BTW, how in the heck do you not overheat with everything you wear???
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wandering_dusk
Oct 21, 2003, 4:41 AM
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Check out the Schoeller stuff from Mammut, the champ pants, the Cerro Torre Jacket, the Laser Jacket, etc... It is incredible stuff and is much more breathable then Gore-Tex, especially in real cold temps. And I agree with the above about the Primaloft and Down versus the Fleece for insulating layers... You want something that will compress small and weigh little... And I personally prefer the Primaloft to the Down because of the survivability of it (It insulates even when wet).
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andypro
Oct 21, 2003, 4:42 AM
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In reply to: BTW, how in the heck do you not overheat with everything you wear???
Hehe. I dont wear ALL that stuff all the time. The vest I was talking about actually doens't go climbing with me It's part of my day to day wear.
On approaches or long slogs, I will often strip down to long underwear and shell, tha'ts it. (on the body anyways). The belaclava is often in my pack until I need it, unless it's really windy or bitter cold.
When I'm climbing, it's often just a lightweight fleece shirt over my longjohns and under the shell. and that's if it's not an overly agressive effort type thing. Same thing with the legs.
When it's REALLY cold (singel digits or below) that's when I start piling stuff on, but only when I'm not active. Even when it's that cold, I can get by with just lightweight fleece under the shell as long as I'm active, and I keep a parka slapped on the outside of my pack for resting or eating or whatever.
Generally my concentration on retaining heat goes into my head and feet. I've been shaving my head for probably about 7 or 8 years now (pre, during, and post military), so I've got lots experience in how much heat is actually lost from your head. (I think the accepted value is upwards fo 40%). The bottom of your feet are also a source for soemthing like 10-15%.
I sweat alot when I'm active. Not so much as to pouring waterfalls, but I can lose at least 5 pounds of water in just a few hours (even more if I'm not careful). I dress as light as possible to help avoid it. I also dress as light as possible because Iv'e got a nasty susceptability to heat sicknesses (found this out the hard way in the dessert in the Marine Corps).
So really..I dont wear ALL that stuff when I'm out and about climbing. Those are generally the options I keep around wiht me (varied with temp and weather).
And my packs not THAT big :wink: I think it's a Lowe backpacker 65 or 70 or whatever the biggest one they came in is. That's mostly cause I carry way too much stuff unless I'm going deep into the hills. hehe. I'm like PTPP when it comes to amenities in the outdoors :lol:
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pico23
Oct 21, 2003, 5:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: BTW, how in the heck do you not overheat with everything you wear??? Generally my concentration on retaining heat goes into my head and feet. I've been shaving my head for probably about 7 or 8 years now (pre, during, and post military), so I've got lots experience in how much heat is actually lost from your head. (I think the accepted value is upwards fo 40%). The bottom of your feet are also a source for soemthing like 10-15%.
Mine too. It's much lighter and more effecient to keep your head, hands and feet warm than to waste a ton of pack space and weight carrying all sorts of torso gear. Usually, I can regulate my temerature pretty well at belays by putting on or removing my hat. IMO, my hat is the equivalent of a torso layer.
For your feet I'd highly recommend an Aluminum Chloride to cut perspiration. Start using it a few weeks before ice season and you'll notice increased warmth in your feet. Also, add extra padding/insulation to the sole of your boots to cut down on conductive heat loss to the crampons.
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andypro
Oct 21, 2003, 5:56 AM
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In reply to: For your feet I'd highly recommend an Aluminum Chloride to cut perspiration. Start using it a few weeks before ice season and you'll notice increased warmth in your feet. Also, add extra padding/insulation to the sole of your boots to cut down on conductive heat loss to the crampons.
Is the aluminum chloride a prescription thing, or is it available OTC? Sounds like an interesting idea. Soemtimes I can actually pour the sweat out of my boots at the end of the day :shock: and all that water takes quite a bit of heat with it.
As for the extra padding in the sole...I'm guessing you mean inside the boot? (I know..sounds like a silly quesiton, but still :wink: ). And what do you use? I'm looking for a new pair of boots for this season..probably leathers as I'm getting fed up with the bulk and "clogness" of my invernos. Wont ditch them for long cold stuff, but for general ice where I'm not all that far from safety (car, hut, whatever) I'm looking at possibly leathers, or a soft plastic like the Alphas. It sounds like a good idea, but if whatver you use is thick, I'd have to think about sizing etc to cope (unless you mean to pull out the insole of the boot and replace it with soemthing more insulative). If you do mean on the outside of the boot, then pay no attention to the above :D
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rendog
Oct 21, 2003, 8:17 AM
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oh yeah I forgot when it's colder out...then at the belay stations I have a 750 dry gore loft marmot downie that keeps me nice and toasty warm 8)
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pico23
Oct 21, 2003, 2:39 PM
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The aluminum chloride is Rx but it's cheap as dirt and last for months of actual use. I loaded up on about 6 bottles when I had a really good prescription plan but I've still only used one bottle in over 2 seasons of rock and ice use.
For the insoles you can do any number of things. If your going with leathers you will probably need to increase the insulation on the bottom of the boot (insole) because it's pretty common to get cold feet in crampons with leathers. Your options are some neoprene cut to fit the boot, several Dr. Scholls foam insoles, or a store bought thermal insole. In my plastics I just use a few pairs of foam insoles placed in the outer boot and then I put a real insole in the inner boot and toss the stock insole. I haven't had leathers in a couple of years but I've used my Makalus for some gully ice a few times and I use a thermal insole in them.
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lifeguard4
Oct 21, 2003, 2:46 PM
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Well in southern utah where I live during the winter it gets so cold that a simple hand warmer in the chalk bag is all that you need so this forum is kindof out of my leage. Sorry
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