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arun
Jan 6, 2004, 1:07 PM
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I have just bought from Black Diamond a pair of screw-on crampons, with a heel spur. However, their website nor any source of info I could find gives any advice on which sort of shoe one should use. So does anybody else know about these screw-on crampons and which shoe would be ideal?
many thanks for your help / suggestions / advice
cheers
Arun
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tradman
Jan 6, 2004, 1:52 PM
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Screw-on crampons are high-performance for hard mixed and ice routes, and more specifically dry-tooling. They're not great for mountaineering for the simple reasons that you can't take them off and they're a b*st*rd to move in. Most pros only use them for comps.
As for boots, well a good pair of mountaineering or ice boots should take them, but they'll probably need a resole to get the flat footplate you'll need to screw into. The obvious problem with this is that you then can't use those boots for anything else.
If you're skilled enough to need screw-ons, then I'm assuming you're at least competing and most probably a pro, in which case you should definitely be looking for specialist pure ice boots.
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gunkiemike
Jan 6, 2004, 2:13 PM
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A year ago at least one competitor had them screwed onto rigid soled (but lightweight!) XC ski shoes. Salomon SR-91's if I'm not mistaken. hey, I've got a pair of those...
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arun
Jan 6, 2004, 2:15 PM
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Cheers for the info. Errr...no definitely not a pro...let alone half decent ;-)
But just got them rather cheap, and I was originally thinking of modifying my M10s. But then saw that the new BD crampon bits had a nice spur.
So thought instead of playing about with my M10s would just get my old army boots resold & then screw on the BD crampon plates.
Hence the request for info/advice.
cheers
Arun
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arun
Jan 6, 2004, 2:48 PM
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Yeah the person who sold them to me, suggested XC ski boots. I looked at them but thought the front binding attachment thing might get in the way.
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pbjosh
Jan 6, 2004, 3:58 PM
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In reply to: Most pros only use them for comps.
This isn't true at all. Clown shoes (as the lightweight purposebuilt boots with bolt on crampons are sometimes called) are commonly used at the crag by both pros and motivated amateurs, and are used in most hard sends at the crag now a days (mixed wise at least).
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crag
Jan 6, 2004, 4:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Most pros only use them for comps. This isn't true at all. Clown shoes (as the lightweight purposebuilt boots with bolt on crampons are sometimes called) are commonly used at the crag by both pros and motivated amateurs, and are used in most hard sends at the crag now a days (mixed wise at least).
So what do I do with my Hobnailed Boots?
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gunked
Jan 6, 2004, 5:15 PM
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So what do I do with my Hobnailed Boots?...............................
FRAME THEM!
-Jason :D
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mustclimb69
Jan 6, 2004, 5:25 PM
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There are boots called the Ice comps made by Kayland they take screw on crampons
Ice comp or Ice Pro what ever but I not sure if there compatiable with BD crampons you have
Good luck
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bigwalling
Jan 6, 2004, 5:34 PM
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After haveing a weird idea and posting it in another post, I went looking to see if anyone had done it. Well he is the details from a pro, http://m9ice.com/mixedbooties.html
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tradman
Jan 6, 2004, 6:29 PM
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Okay, to qualify what I said earlier:
"Most pros only use them for comps."
This refers to pros here in the UK. I can't vouch for professional climbers where you are. But I do know that Scott Muir's "Too Fast Too furious" (M14) and Allan Mullin's "Crazy Sorrow" (X,11) were FA'd with ordinary crampons, and that I've never seen or heard of either climber using screw-ons outside of competition.
Enthusiastic amateurs over your way may very well be commonly using screw-ons, but over here not even the hardest pros, FA'ing some of the hardest routes in the world, are using them more than occasionally.
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crag
Jan 7, 2004, 12:12 AM
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In reply to: but over here not even the hardest pros, FA'ing some of the hardest routes in the world, are using them more than occasionally.
....Cause the Scots are about the thriftiest group of people you'd ever lay eyes on. Hard to let go of a good pair of Hobnails isn't it.
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pbjosh
Jan 7, 2004, 12:32 AM
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In reply to: Scott Muir's "Too Fast Too furious" (M14) and Allan Mullin's "Crazy Sorrow" (X,11) were FA'd with ordinary crampons, and that I've never seen or heard of either climber using screw-ons outside of competition.
Did everyone give M13 a miss? Hardest routes that I am aware of are all rated M12. Though it's certainly possible to climb any route in any footwear assuming you have enough endurance and other trickery, it's rare that something M10 or harder gets sent in regular boots and crampons, much like it's rare for any hard mixed routes to be done with leashes.
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tradman
Jan 7, 2004, 10:32 AM
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In reply to: Did everyone give M13 a miss? Hardest routes that I am aware of are all rated M12.
Yeah, it's caused a storm over here too. The guy who put up the line is young and very ambitious, and definitely not popular, but he's undeniably talented.
The route is a DT line in a severely overhung amphitheatre, and there's no doubt that it's furiously hard, but Scott was immediately shouted down by everyone of note. Having said that, to the best of my knowledge, nobody's come close to a repeat yet.
I wouldn't defend Scott, he's more than capable of doing it himself, but as the FA'er he's got a right to grade the line as he sees fit, and since nobody else can send it, it'll just have to be a sore point for now.
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hema
Jan 7, 2004, 10:35 AM
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In reply to: Okay, to qualify what I said earlier: Scott Muir's "Too Fast Too furious" (M14).
Didn't Scott grade it D12 as the line is pure drytooling and the FA was made in the middle of summer.
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hema
Jan 7, 2004, 10:38 AM
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[quote="pbjosh]Did everyone give M13 a miss? Hardest routes that I am aware of are all rated M12. Though it's certainly possible to climb any route in any footwear assuming you have enough endurance and other trickery, it's rare that something M10 or harder gets sent in regular boots and crampons, much like it's rare for any hard mixed routes to be done with leashes.
Atleast Musahsi (the fisrt M12) was climbed using just standard Scarpa Freney's, and Sabretooths, or so I heard.
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tradman
Jan 7, 2004, 10:47 AM
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Yeah, that was part of the controversy. There's not much I can add to the debate, I'd advise you to surf around and check - there are at least 4 different versions of the grade doing the rounds. I've seen it listed as D11, D12, M11, M14 and even f8b!
It's a bit sad, but Scott's not really part of the mainstream of Scottish climbing, and he gets a lot of abuse for his work. Which is a shame because he really is talented.
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hema
Jan 7, 2004, 10:54 AM
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Aha, found some info on Too Fast Too Furious, atleast Planetfear seemed to grade it M12 and MacLeod did the second ascent.
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tradman
Jan 7, 2004, 12:06 PM
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I'm not even going to start on this one, sorry. It's caused enough controversy already - we've had some of our best climbers threatening to quit over it. Nobody agrees on anything about it, and the general opinion seems to be that the best idea is to accept that it was a mistake and leave it at that.
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pbjosh
Jan 19, 2004, 5:12 AM
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Ah I had heard about that - I agree that at some point just drytooling a roof in summer is at least to me uninspiring and I can see why controversy arose. I wouldn't doubt it's difficulty, but I'd say that the hardest mixed lines in the world are still M12 according to most mixed climbers.
AFAIK, Will Gadd's original ascent of Musashi in sabretooths and with leashes (?!?!) was the first and probably last ascent of something that difficult with that gear. After converting to leashless and clownshoes he repeated it readily, saying the new gear was a huge improvement. He even dropped a tool in the middle of the redpoint and had it thrown back up to him by his belayer, heh... is that aid?
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tim
Jan 19, 2004, 7:19 AM
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the m9ice link is pretty dope, definitely worth a look. I never would have thought of bolting points onto figure skates but it does give a bit of credence to the 'fairy shoes' nickname ;-)
I've been piddling around, trying to figure out how to get a stably welded monopoint on my Bionics with at least enough overhang to clear my boots... I'm getting to the point where it looks like maybe bolting the damn things on really is the only way to get a stable, strong spur onto them (eg. where there's enough contact on the weld and enough jut from the heel to stick).
bummer for alpine eh. ;-)
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mario.koopman
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Feb 2, 2004, 11:16 AM
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They fit unther the Scarpa PHANTOM-ICE. if u need moreinfo mail my on mario.koopman@home.nl
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db
Apr 1, 2004, 5:15 PM
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In the spirit of the original thread, I saw these on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3669248261&category=30106&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1
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brianinslc
Apr 1, 2004, 5:28 PM
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In reply to: In the spirit of the original thread, I saw these on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3669248261&category=30106&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT&rd=1
Just happened to run into them over there on eBay, eh?
Ha ha.
Brian in SLC
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