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c_plante
Mar 8, 2002, 3:04 AM
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I climbed at Joe Rockheads this weekend and I have a few things that I want to say. First off let me say that I told my two climbing partners my opinions of Joe Rockheads at Jarek disagreed with almost everything I said and Downshift agreed with almost everything I said, so that being said, here goes.
1) Anchorage: Gravity uses a 2 anchor system, the first one at the edge of the wall, the second one a few feet back from the wall, so that when you get to the top of the wall you’re not fighting the rope. At Joe Rockheads it’s a 1 anchor system, and as you get closer to the top that rope starts to chaff and it gets harder and harder to complete. I belayed a beginning climber, and she was doing fine until that rope started to dig into her back and she started to struggle from there. My point is that 1 anchor is evil.
2) Belay: I watched a new climber belay someone, and the instructor was standing right beside. The climber was done and the belayer took the rope, wrapped it around the gri gri, and then started to belay. In order to do this she had to do a whole lot of wrapping and pulling and it was all a big mess. This to me seemed dangerous. I then watched lead belayers to the same thing. Does this bother anyone else?
3) Safety: Several times I watched someone walk between the wall and me. Had my climber took an unscheduled fall and I had to catch him, I might swing toward the wall. All fine, except had that person been there at that exact moment I would have hit him/her. I watched this happen more then once, and it wasn’t all new climbers either, several lead climbers were doing it too.
4) Community: The “feeling” of the gym was unwelcoming. While at Gravity I like giving and receiving beta and advice from other climbers. More experienced climbers are usually more than happy to share their thoughts with other climbers, whereas at Joe Rockheads there seemed to be a different attitude. I can’t quite pin it down, but when I talked to someone about their hooligan kids I got cold stares from some of the regulars. I asked some people who were loitering around a climb if they were going to climb the route, rather than answer me the one guy snatched the rope and then said “Yeah I am.”, and while I have certainly done the same thing, this guy did it in such an odd manner, that I’m not certain if it was rude, or obstinate or what. There’s just a really weird feeling around the gym. If anyone has any opinions about this particular point I’d like to hear it.
Well I guess that’s it, does anyone think I’m off base?
[ This Message was edited by: c_plante on 2002-03-07 19:24 ]
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xen_monkey
Mar 8, 2002, 7:46 PM
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Hey CP, Downshift, Jarek and I are going to Rockheads this weekend. You in?
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c_plante
Mar 8, 2002, 10:57 PM
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Nope, I don't want to have to take the belay test 3 more times, I don't want to pay those prices, and finally I just don't like the place. If you guys go, have fun.
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downshift
Mar 11, 2002, 4:00 AM
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Hey we had fun... But, we always have fun.
Now I don't hate Rockhead's but, like any other gym it has it flaws. To paraphrase something I said in another forum...
The top rope anchors are a pain from time to time to the point where you may have to fight with it.
Their climbs tend to be rated higher then they really are.
My biggest complaint (this is a Toronto thing and not really any fault of Rockhead’s)... I hate paying for parking!
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andy_lemon
Mar 11, 2002, 5:28 AM
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Life of the gym... I wouldn't live without it.
Sounds like you have a much taller wall than us... ours is only 33ft. Also, we have TR's already set up but we can lead climb if we bring our own gear.
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c_plante
Mar 11, 2002, 7:35 AM
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I'm not certain how tall Rockheads is, I'd say maybe 30 odd feet with 40-50 foot lead climbs? Anyone got the real numbers?
Gravity is around 30-40 feet, and 50-60ish for the overhead lead climbs, again that's just my guess, I just climb the routes, I don't measure them.
Christian
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xen_monkey
Mar 12, 2002, 2:46 AM
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I think most of rockheads climbs vary from about 20 to 30 feet. The top rope ceiling is a little higher, maybe 40 at its peak, but you can climb down the other size.
I think Gravity is 40 for most climbs, there are a few short routes, like the slab. The ceiling isn't 50, the rafters start under 50.
The grotto, has about the same range as rockheads, except for the high ceiling climb. The climbs by the entry are probobly over 40.
Then there's Rock Oasis, with whopping 60ft indoor climbs. CP have we taken you there yet? If not, maybe this weekend.
I was at Rockhead this weekend, and I met up with some Rockclimbing.com regulars. It was crowded but freindlier then usual.
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darkside
Mar 12, 2002, 8:26 AM
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Xen: It was indeed good to put faces to a few usernames. Now I can watch out for some more people at the crags.
Rock Oasis is a nice gym but with temps forecasted to rise to 12-14oC by the end of the week, you should consider outdoors. The Glen should be good but if any of you wish to join me around Milton for a bit of real rock, just give me a shout.
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c_plante
Mar 12, 2002, 9:25 AM
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I've never been to Rock Oasis, I'd love to go but not this weekend, Downshift and I are on course for the Red Cross, maybe next weekend.
Christian
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xen_monkey
Mar 13, 2002, 1:02 AM
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Darkside _ I'd love to hit some ral rock when it gets warmer. I'm not quite crazy enough to do ice .
CP tell me when you're free we'll hit oasis.
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downshift
Mar 13, 2002, 1:46 AM
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I must agree it was good to put a few faces and real names to handles on here .. I'd love to go outdoor this weekend I just have a course
Xen:
Quote: I'm not quite crazy enough to do ice .
For some reason I think I have to disagree with that statement.
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darkside
Mar 13, 2002, 5:20 AM
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lol Whatever makes you think ice is crazy? Besides the bone chilling cold, wet damp clothes, uncertain pro at times, frostbite, high number of sharp things in the immediate vicinity of the rope, crossing of (hopefully) frozen lakes, or the fracturing nature of the very medium you're hanging your ass on. Now just what the hell is crazy about tha.......Oh, the huge travelling distances to actually find ice this winter, well yes that was crazy
But hey it warm enough now for the nice sane pastime of rock climbing....er..if it doesn't rain.
Any of you guys heading for the warmer locales of 'ole Kentuck at Easter?
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c_plante
Mar 13, 2002, 7:59 AM
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If I had my druthers I'd have an indoor ice climbing gym with a top rope setup(for safety, you'd still set your own pro)That's about the only way I'd climb ice.
Xen Monkey is not only crazy enough to climb ice, he's crazy enough to climb ice without pro. You won't catch my ass halfway up a frozen waterfall that's for damned sure.
Christian
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spiderx
Mar 13, 2002, 9:24 PM
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An indoor Ice climbing gym, it’s an interesting idea but nothing more than a pipe dream, there is no way that anyone will ever put an ice climbing gym together, unless they live in a naturally cold climate, eg, Alaska. And if they were living in a cold climate why the hell would they want to climb indoors.
spider
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downshift
Mar 13, 2002, 10:34 PM
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Isn't there an artfical (although outdoor) ice climbing wall somewhere out west. I remember reading some short article about it somewhere a year or so ago.
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c_plante
Mar 13, 2002, 10:57 PM
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Dear Spiderx,
Look before you leap. Ever heard of that? How's about refrigeration coils? What about heat exchanges? What about a hockey arena? What about commercial freezers for such things as fur storage and food? Creating a massive indoor waterfall, is that hard to do do you think? What about backing said waterfall with a series of high efficiency coils that, while they wouldn't create an immediate ice sheet, they would gradually cool the water down (especially if the water was collected at the bottom and pumped back up to the top). And then of course if you cool the surrounding air with a simple off the shelf commercial air conditioner, it wouldn't have to be super cool btw, probably somewhere in the -10 to +10 range, do you think that perhaps you could have an indoor frozen waterfall? What about ice that is broken off by ice axes? You could (hypothetically of course) have a continuous drip of icy cool water (I realize that making cold water is technically difficult, but we are talking in the realm of the hypothetical for now) and then that water would naturally cover the existing ice and only increase its thickness.
Anyone think that this "theory" of operation is too "out there?"
Christian
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xen_monkey
Mar 14, 2002, 1:40 AM
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As I've told you before the only logistical problem I see with your idea is liabilty insurance. Think about it, you're trying to provide a "safe" enviroment for a intriniscly unpredictable medium. You have to worry not only about liabilty for the climber, but for the man on floor as well. Falling ice can hurt, especially bouncing arround a confined space.
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xterramo
Mar 14, 2002, 2:26 AM
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No offense but the climbing gyms in Toronto sound small. Y'all should come down to my gym, Stoneworks. The short routes are anywhere from 40 to 60ft. The longer ones can reach all the way up to 120ft. You should check out their website
http://www.stoneworkssilos.com/
It hasn't been updated in a while but you'll get the idea. It's true what they say, everything is BIGGER and BETTER in TEXAS! Even our gyms! Hope to see y'all down here.
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c_plante
Mar 14, 2002, 8:55 AM
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Yeah Xen_Monkey I agree with you on all those counts, with a top rope setup you'd have a bigger safety factor but a lesser fun factor (I'm not speaking from experience in this respect, I've never ice climbed, any experienced ice climbers with an opinion are strongly encouraged to share their views on top rope ice climbing) but to address your point Xen, someone eventually has the liability issue ball in their proverbial court, whether it be the municipality that your climbing in, or the oddball "impossible" indoor gym. The insurance aspect is a big deal with all gyms I suspect. It's just another reason to jack the price of the climb
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darkside
Mar 14, 2002, 3:20 PM
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W1: Leave it alone unless its alpine.
W2: TR/boring. lead/OK.
W3: TR/OK. lead/fun.
W4: TR/fun. lead/interesting.
W5: TR/interesting. lead/hard.
Mixed: TR/hard lead/scary.
Mixed on thin edges and chossy rock: interestingly hard and scary.
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kevinwaldock
Mar 14, 2002, 3:47 PM
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darkside: unless it rains i'm planning on rattlesnake for like sat wheather pending. What area in milton are ya goin to? maybe i'll c ya around. and where in ontario did ya go ice climbing this winter? i was sapposed to go on an equinox adventure thing up near L. Rosseau but didn't(financial issues).
kevin
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spiderx
Mar 14, 2002, 4:41 PM
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C-Plant
Like I said it’s an interesting idea, but have you ever seen an indoor ice climbing gym anywhere in Ontario or for that matter anywhere else. Sure it’s possible, it’s possible to colonize Mars, but you don’t see anybody trying to do that, do you. Why you ask, because it’s not practical at this time to do so. I also agree with xen-monkey, the first time a fragment of ice, fall and hits somebody, your ice gym is over. The Liability is to high.
Spider
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darkside
Mar 14, 2002, 4:49 PM
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Kevin: It would most likely be Rattlesnake/Buffalo because they are south facing so chance of sun. If I make it you should be able to spot me by my BD Halfdome helmet covered in stickers(look for the double Canada on the back) and I'll be leading on double ropes.
Most of my Ontario ice days were anywhere from Muskoka to Bancroft. I actually didn't climb at Rosseau because of all the schools but you didn't miss much there as the ice was hurt by the sun exposure, the Pillar didn't even fully form this year. I also went as far as the North Bay area for the day, although technically that was Quebec as I was over the Ottawa river. I headed out of the province for New Hampshire, Vermont, and the Adirondacks on a few occasions. Not the best year for ice but I got out pretty much each weekend.
Looks like back to rock again!!!
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redzit
Mar 14, 2002, 5:15 PM
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i really don't care what anyone says about Joe's. to me it really doesn't matter. the Anchoring system there makes perfect sense. if one brakes at this other place the first guy speaks of then you take a painful and dangerous swing. at joes the chain is probably rated at over 2 Tonnes. just by looking at it. Joe's is a safe Gyms. the floors there are paddded and as far as i know the best of their kind in Canada. that goofy belay this guy says he saw at the gyms. i can explain. yes, i see it to, what is happening is they are rapping the rope around the lip of the Grigri, making more friction, this is safer than what most people do. and it is what the Grigri is designed to do.
As for Community. it is negative posts like this that cause that. I think That we should all embrase anysort of gym that has gone as far as Joe's to have a good selection of climbs, the space and the people. of you want to suggest to a friend that you go to another place, fine, but don't out right diss a place. It's Offensive, rude, and you have no right.
i will see all those that accualy think before they assume things at the gyms on Fridays
Kevin
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kevinwaldock
Mar 14, 2002, 5:36 PM
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i use to go to rockheads cause it was easy for me to get too. but recently i've started goin to rock oasis and it is soooo much better the routes, the people, the way the belay is set up (anchored to the floor) i really don't think i'm goin back to JR. just my opinion. darkside: if it stays dry i'll c ya there.
kevin
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